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Thread: The Ukraine situation

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    Default The Ukraine situation

    So what's everyone take on what is happening in the Ukraine? Are the 'peaceful protestors' doing right? or do you call it what it is, a violent riot?

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Option "C". It's violent and it's also "doing right."

    Putin wants to bring Ukraine into his proposed Eurasian Union. He essentially bribed Ukraine's leader, Yanukovych, not to join the European Union, which he had said he was going to do.

    People in the eastern part of Ukraine identify as ethnic Russians, speak Russian and generally agree with Ukraine and Russia becoming cozier. They're in the minority.

    People in the west of Ukraine speak Ukrainian and identify as ethnic Ukrainians. They're in the majority. They wanted the deal with the European Union and are pissed that Putin and Yanukovych torpedoed it. Yanukovych, by the way, threw out the old Ukrainian constitution after he came to power and crafted a new constitution that basically legitimizes what in essence is a near-dictatorship.

    So I can understand the actions of the protestors who feel they have no other recourse to save their vision of what Ukraine is and should be -- and what it should not be.

    Don't forget, the USA was born out of violent protest, so from our point of view it's kind of hypocritical to denounce violent protest as being something wrong.

    Hey, maybe if Ukraine turns into another Syria, it'll reignite the Cold War and we'll see Reagan-era defense spending again. More money! More manning! Bigger, better, faster, more lethal, and more expensive weapons!!!!! Won't that be great?!
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
    ~Mignon McLaughlin

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Option "C". It's violent and it's also "doing right."

    Putin wants to bring Ukraine into his proposed Eurasian Union. He essentially bribed Ukraine's leader, Yanukovych, not to join the European Union, which he had said he was going to do.

    People in the eastern part of Ukraine identify as ethnic Russians, speak Russian and generally agree with Ukraine and Russia becoming cozier. They're in the minority.

    People in the west of Ukraine speak Ukrainian and identify as ethnic Ukrainians. They're in the majority. They wanted the deal with the European Union and are pissed that Putin and Yanukovych torpedoed it. Yanukovych, by the way, threw out the old Ukrainian constitution after he came to power and crafted a new constitution that basically legitimizes what in essence is a near-dictatorship.

    So I can understand the actions of the protestors who feel they have no other recourse to save their vision of what Ukraine is and should be -- and what it should not be.

    Don't forget, the USA was born out of violent protest, so from our point of view it's kind of hypocritical to denounce violent protest as being something wrong.

    Hey, maybe if Ukraine turns into another Syria, it'll reignite the Cold War and we'll see Reagan-era defense spending again. More money! More manning! Bigger, better, faster, more lethal, and more expensive weapons!!!!! Won't that be great?!
    You make some good points, Bender. Another thing to keep in mind is that these people have only known freedom for 1 generation. It seems they're not so willing to give it up, and are willing to give their lives to keep it.
    "Wrong" is one of those concepts that requires witnesses. Catbert, Evil Director of Human Resources

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Don't forget, the USA was born out of violent protest, so from our point of view it's kind of hypocritical to denounce violent protest as being something wrong.

    While it may seem hypocritical, what gets me is how most all the news channels seem to only go on about the depredations of the govt forces/police, in how many 'protestors' get hurt/killed, but not so much on the rioters and how many police/troops are injured/killed in their molotov cocktail burning..
    I also can't understand how they can STILL call it a protest. Call it what it is, a RIOT.

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Option "C". It's violent and it's also "doing right."

    Putin wants to bring Ukraine into his proposed Eurasian Union. He essentially bribed Ukraine's leader, Yanukovych, not to join the European Union, which he had said he was going to do.

    People in the eastern part of Ukraine identify as ethnic Russians, speak Russian and generally agree with Ukraine and Russia becoming cozier. They're in the minority.

    People in the west of Ukraine speak Ukrainian and identify as ethnic Ukrainians. They're in the majority. They wanted the deal with the European Union and are pissed that Putin and Yanukovych torpedoed it. Yanukovych, by the way, threw out the old Ukrainian constitution after he came to power and crafted a new constitution that basically legitimizes what in essence is a near-dictatorship.

    So I can understand the actions of the protestors who feel they have no other recourse to save their vision of what Ukraine is and should be -- and what it should not be.

    Don't forget, the USA was born out of violent protest, so from our point of view it's kind of hypocritical to denounce violent protest as being something wrong.

    Hey, maybe if Ukraine turns into another Syria, it'll reignite the Cold War and we'll see Reagan-era defense spending again. More money! More manning! Bigger, better, faster, more lethal, and more expensive weapons!!!!! Won't that be great?!
    We could really use another Cold War. It was definitely the most peaceful time of my existence.

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    We could really use another Cold War. It was definitely the most peaceful time of my existence.
    I'm sure that those who fought in Korea and Vietnam would disagree with you.
    "We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people."

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I'm sure that those who fought in Korea and Vietnam would disagree with you.
    I'm not talking about Korea and Vietnam. I would never want those to happen. I'm talking about the Reagan era Cold War, where the military wasn't largely deployed around the world.

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I'm not talking about Korea and Vietnam. I would never want those to happen. I'm talking about the Reagan era Cold War, where the military wasn't largely deployed around the world.
    We had a lot more bases world-wide back then.

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    We had a lot more bases world-wide back then.
    Do you argue just for the sake of it?

    I didn't talk about how many bases we had. I said "deployed". Hell, you even quoted my post with the word "deployed". Unless you consider being stationed overseas as being deployed. And every cake TDY you've been on as being "deployed".

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    Default Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Do you argue just for the sake of it?

    I didn't talk about how many bases we had. I said "deployed". Hell, you even quoted my post with the word "deployed". Unless you consider being stationed overseas as being deployed. And every cake TDY you've been on as being "deployed".
    Well, you might want to retract that request for another Cold War because it was more "peaceful."
    "We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people."

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