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Thread: Free Market Federalism

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    Default Free Market Federalism

    I would like to float an idea that may seem radical, it will probably seem radical mainly because we have detached ourselves so far from it. Essentially the idea is to outsource a large portion of the cost of running the Federal Government back to the states, maintaining only a Federal Government in charge of the responsibilities outlined in Article 1 Section 8.

    Afterwards, eliminate all Federal taxes to the individual. Federal Government revenues would be a derivative of that which each individual state taxes out of its citizens, in a sense, rather than paying a state and a federal tax, the individual would be required to pay just a state tax, that is essentially both taxes combined going to one source. The percentage of contribution coming from each state would be based on how many congressmen/women it contributes to the House of Representatives, therefore a state with 8 Representatives statewide would contribute 8/435 x 100% or 1.8% of the total Federal tax burden, which should be decisively less than it is presently because the Federal Government would essentially only be required to sustain the postal service, transportation, international treaties, and national defense, all things known as "entitlements" now become the prerogative of the individual state. The state itself would then be able to decide through its state system of government which entitlements are managed and how.

    The end state here is now the individual state's success or failure will be based on how effectively it can manage to do everything it sets out to do while maintaining the balance of taxes, operational costs, and entitlements as desired by the voting constituent. If you like California and its breadth of entitlements, you can move there quite easily. If you prefer another state for its income tax rates, you can move there instead. The state's revenues will be based on the independent ability to effectively manage its taxpayers' resources. As people move there, its revenues will increase as well as its sustainability.

    A decisive advantage is Federal Budgeting will be quite easy, other than making war and overseas funding, there would be no controversy over what gets funded by our Federal government and what does not.

    Just throwing out the hypothetical to see what people feel about the issue...
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    I would like to float an idea that may seem radical, it will probably seem radical mainly because we have detached ourselves so far from it. Essentially the idea is to outsource a large portion of the cost of running the Federal Government back to the states, maintaining only a Federal Government in charge of the responsibilities outlined in Article 1 Section 8.

    Afterwards, eliminate all Federal taxes to the individual. Federal Government revenues would be a derivative of that which each individual state taxes out of its citizens, in a sense, rather than paying a state and a federal tax, the individual would be required to pay just a state tax, that is essentially both taxes combined going to one source. The percentage of contribution coming from each state would be based on how many congressmen/women it contributes to the House of Representatives, therefore a state with 8 Representatives statewide would contribute 8/435 x 100% or 1.8% of the total Federal tax burden, which should be decisively less than it is presently because the Federal Government would essentially only be required to sustain the postal service, transportation, international treaties, and national defense, all things known as "entitlements" now become the prerogative of the individual state. The state itself would then be able to decide through its state system of government which entitlements are managed and how.

    The end state here is now the individual state's success or failure will be based on how effectively it can manage to do everything it sets out to do while maintaining the balance of taxes, operational costs, and entitlements as desired by the voting constituent. If you like California and its breadth of entitlements, you can move there quite easily. If you prefer another state for its income tax rates, you can move there instead. The state's revenues will be based on the independent ability to effectively manage its taxpayers' resources. As people move there, its revenues will increase as well as its sustainability.

    A decisive advantage is Federal Budgeting will be quite easy, other than making war and overseas funding, there would be no controversy over what gets funded by our Federal government and what does not.

    Just throwing out the hypothetical to see what people feel about the issue...
    Basically it will lead to the collapse of the union. People from the poorest states will leave for those states that have bigger economies, better growth propsects, better quality of life.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglÚs con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en Úl reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    Basically it will lead to the collapse of the union. People from the poorest states will leave for those states that have bigger economies, better growth propsects, better quality of life.
    Collapse of the Union, no, not so much. This was intended not affect the Constitutional powers provided to the Federal government whatsoever, there will still be three co-equal branches. It will however, put the burden on states to figure out how to manage their independent budgets more effectively, or find someone who can. If their neighbor state has something more effective, it may behoove them to take that on board. So you're right in that failure of that state is an option.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    Collapse of the Union, no, not so much. This was intended not affect the Constitutional powers provided to the Federal government whatsoever, there will still be three co-equal branches. It will however, put the burden on states to figure out how to manage their independent budgets more effectively, or find someone who can. If their neighbor state has something more effective, it may behoove them to take that on board. So you're right in that failure of that state is an option.
    The reason why it will collapse is because the vast majority of the states in this country aren't economically self sufficient. Check this list of states and how they rank by GDP

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

    After Colorado which ranks 19th on the list, please tell me which state you will find that is economically self sufficient? The reason that many of the states in this nation are able to hold it together is because of the way that money that is redistributed from the wealthiest states in the country to the poorest in the way of subsidies and social welfare programs. You take that out of the equation and companies and people from the poorest states will start moving to the more bigger and vibrant economies of the other states.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglÚs con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en Úl reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    The reason why it will collapse is because the vast majority of the states in this country aren't economically self sufficient. Check this list of states and how they rank by GDP

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

    After Colorado which ranks 19th on the list, please tell me which state you will find that is economically self sufficient? The reason that many of the states in this nation are able to hold it together is because of the way that money that is redistributed from the wealthiest states in the country to the poorest in the way of subsidies and social welfare programs. You take that out of the equation and companies and people from the poorest states will start moving to the more bigger and vibrant economies of the other states.
    That's not a collapse of the union, it's just a collapse of dependency towards the union.

    I don't see a problem with that at all honestly. States that have been consistently non-sustainable would then be forced to become sustainable or turn into barren real estate. What you seem to be implying as a disadvantage is actually an advantage! States have all the powers to do whatever it takes to make themselves self-sufficient based on their ability to impose taxation, provide services, and operate their government. If they fail to operate effectively, most likely they will first find themselves under new management, or later be forced to rethink the way they do business to make themselves viable.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by AJBIGJ View Post
    That's not a collapse of the union, it's just a collapse of dependency towards the union.

    I don't see a problem with that at all honestly. States that have been consistently non-sustainable would then be forced to become sustainable or turn into barren real estate. What you seem to be implying as a disadvantage is actually an advantage! States have all the powers to do whatever it takes to make themselves self-sufficient based on their ability to impose taxation, provide services, and operate their government. If they fail to operate effectively, most likely they will first find themselves under new management, or later be forced to rethink the way they do business to make themselves viable.
    Then you should have stated so in your OP. When I read your OP I kind of got the hint you had a hidden agenda it didn't took long to figure out what it was.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglÚs con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en Úl reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    And cause of those freeloaders moving, they will drown the state they move to's economy down in to the gutter..

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    And cause of those freeloaders moving, they will drown the state they move to's economy down in to the gutter..
    Exactly, and will eventually lead to the collapse of the union.
    Antes de que vengas a juzgarme por que escribo el inglÚs con errores te pregunto: Cuantos idiomas tu hablas?! Solo uno? Y vienes a juzgar mi inteligencia?! Por favor mirate en el espejo y veras en Úl reflejo la imagen clara de la estupidez...

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    And cause of those freeloaders moving, they will drown the state they move to's economy down in to the gutter..
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch View Post
    Exactly, and will eventually lead to the collapse of the union.
    Only if all the states they move into decide to try to prop them up as freeloaders. If they move to a state with the intention of freeloading, and the state refuses them, they will either be forced to become productive themselves, and make that state more successful, or move to another state that will encourage that dependency and pauperism, making that state less successful. I have a feeling the states that continue to remain successful will not be the ones that are giving freeloaders a free ride.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
    James Madison

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    Default Re: Free Market Federalism

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c

    Yep, that pretty much sums that up...

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