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Thread: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

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    Angry CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    This concept needs to come to an end. It is one of the biggest waste of resources. I believe it was the Medical Groups that first starting do this years ago and then everyone jumped on board with it.

    My first few years in...everyone was open for business from 0730-1630. In my unit at the time, you were not allowed to close. Even when there were picnics, commander calls, etc., someone was left behind...typically the standby guy or a couple people would tag in and out.

    Now...shops in comm, LRS, CE, FSS and other units are doing it. I wouldn't be surprised if I called 911 and they said they were closed for training.

    I have personally witnessed people in multiple units on facebook and doing other things goofing off during these "closed for training" days.

    Everyone seems to pick different days, but why Friday? So you can dart out early every Friday, right and no one will notice... Everything "trained" will be forgotten by Monday...seems if you were training you would want to start the week off "training."

    Then there is the benefit of these "closed for training" days...are they really benefiting the Air Force?! Your people should be stellar if they get a full day every week to do nothing but "training." But the service rendered typically says otherwise. Then there is the training plan and training records. Closed for training every week, you should have stellar training plans and stellar training records. Nope...10, 20, 30+ days non-progression with no justifiable reason is common place still. Journal entries...non-existent. MTP's not current.

    Every organization and every office should be open and serving "customers" from 0730 - 1630, Monday - Friday, period.

    Want to cut people out early one day? Fine, but a NCO or two should stay around to take care of the people on base that need your services.

    Training should happen on-the-job...you know that concept taught to us long ago...OJT. A NCO or other "trainer" does a job and has a young Airman right there with them learning. Need extended time...go in the back and train, but the office should remain open with other people running it.
    Last edited by VFFTSGT; 08-20-2013 at 09:29 PM.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Roger that.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Yup, I know people in some of these units and have asked them what they really do during these "training" days. Most of the time, the answer was nothing but a bunch of BS and they admitted it.


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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Quote Originally Posted by VFFTSGT View Post
    This concept needs to come to an end. It is one of the biggest waste of resources. I believe it was the Medical Groups that first starting do this years ago and then everyone jumped on board with it.

    My first few years in...everyone was open for business from 0730-1630. In my unit at the time, you were not allowed to close. Even when there were picnics, commander calls, etc., someone was left behind...typically the standby guy or a couple people would tag in and out.

    Now...shops in comm, LRS, CE, FSS and other units are doing it. I wouldn't be surprised if I called 911 and they said they were closed for training.

    I have personally witnessed people in multiple units on facebook and doing other things goofing off during these "closed for training" days.

    Everyone seems to pick different days, but why Friday? So you can dart out early every Friday, right and no one will notice... Everything "trained" will be forgotten by Monday...seems if you were training you would want to start the week off "training."

    Then there is the benefit of these "closed for training" days...are they really benefiting the Air Force?! Your people should be stellar if they get a full day every week to do nothing but "training." But the service rendered typically says otherwise. Then there is the training plan and training records. Closed for training every week, you should have stellar training plans and stellar training records. Nope...10, 20, 30+ days non-progression with no justifiable reason is common place still. Journal entries...non-existent. MTP's not current.

    Every organization and every office should be open and serving "customers" from 0730 - 1630, Monday - Friday, period.

    Want to cut people out early one day? Fine, but a NCO or two should stay around to take care of the people on base that need your services.

    Training should happen on-the-job...you know that concept taught to us long ago...OJT. A NCO or other "trainer" does a job and has a young Airman right there with them learning. Need extended time...go in the back and train, but the office should remain open with other people running it.
    I am on the fence on this one. When I worked at finance sometimes our "closed for training" days were actually catch up on work days. Of course we trained while we did the work but being closed was necessary due to the volume of work in the office. Imagine the following scenario that used to happen all the time:

    Customer: I need to check on my voucher
    Me: When did you drop it off?
    Customer: 3 days ago
    Me: Normally they take 5-7 days to pay
    Customer: Can you just check and see if it is input yet?
    Me: (after checking) no it has not been entered yet.
    Customer: what is the delay?
    Me: After we close down for the day I try and enter as many vouchers as I can but I am obviously standing here talking to you so I can't enter it right now.

    When we were allowed to close for training we could sometimes get about 200 voucher processed instead of 50-100. That ultimately cut down on future customers. With that being said I think closing for training should be done sparingly and only out of necessity. Also before someone says that we should have came in on Saturday to catch up I would point out we were already doing that and still couldn't keep up. Also if we had questions on some items on the voucher and were working on Saturday we would have to wait until Monday to get them answered which is not efficient.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    [QUOTE=grimreaper;647912]Yup, I know people in some of these units and have asked them what they really do during these "training" days. Most of the time, the answer was nothing but a bunch of BS and they admitted it.

    Yeah in my unit. "Training days" are filled with fluff.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    I was reading Gen Robin Olds book written by his daughter Christine, when he took command of a wing in Thailand and found out that some off the flightline offices closed during normal duty hours he changed it to the same hours of the flightline, if mx and ops were pushing out combat sorties which was 24 hours a day they were also open. Of course that could not happen in today's USAF, that would be just plane mean.
    I'm not the regular Crew Chief.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I am on the fence on this one. When I worked at finance sometimes our "closed for training" days were actually catch up on work days. Of course we trained while we did the work but being closed was necessary due to the volume of work in the office. Imagine the following scenario that used to happen all the time:

    Customer: I need to check on my voucher
    Me: When did you drop it off?
    Customer: 3 days ago
    Me: Normally they take 5-7 days to pay
    Customer: Can you just check and see if it is input yet?
    Me: (after checking) no it has not been entered yet.
    Customer: what is the delay?
    Me: After we close down for the day I try and enter as many vouchers as I can but I am obviously standing here talking to you so I can't enter it right now.

    When we were allowed to close for training we could sometimes get about 200 voucher processed instead of 50-100. That ultimately cut down on future customers. With that being said I think closing for training should be done sparingly and only out of necessity. Also before someone says that we should have came in on Saturday to catch up I would point out we were already doing that and still couldn't keep up. Also if we had questions on some items on the voucher and were working on Saturday we would have to wait until Monday to get them answered which is not efficient.
    I remember those days. They were awful.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    How ' bout this for ridiculous? The Army shuts down for Waste of Time (some call it "Sergeant's time"), usually on a Wednesday or Thursday morning. ALL Army offices close for business, to include those that HAVE NO SOLDIERS. Furlough THOSE mother****ers.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Venus View Post
    I was reading Gen Robin Olds book written by his daughter Christine, when he took command of a wing in Thailand and found out that some off the flightline offices closed during normal duty hours he changed it to the same hours of the flightline, if mx and ops were pushing out combat sorties which was 24 hours a day they were also open. Of course that could not happen in today's USAF, that would be just plane mean.
    Robin Olds was the best, they don't make 'em like that anymore. He'd never make Major today.

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    Default Re: CLOSED FOR TRAINING or some other bogus reason

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo77 View Post
    How ' bout this for ridiculous? The Army shuts down for Waste of Time (some call it "Sergeant's time"), usually on a Wednesday or Thursday morning. ALL Army offices close for business, to include those that HAVE NO SOLDIERS. Furlough THOSE mother****ers.
    Being a retired Army guy (and NCO) I do remember those days. In the line units, I questioned this practice because the line units have no customers. Realizing that, shouldn't those units be 1) training, 2) preparing from a training exercise, or 3) recovering from a training exercise? Those units that are customer oriented should not shut down completely for "training". A good leader will find a way to accomplish the mission and train the troops. I would welcome the sight of a junior NCO watching over a troop while learning a task even the task was being done for me. How the hell else will they learn?

    When I was with the combat support hospital, I would seek out the newer medics and have them start IV's on me. The fake arm is decent, but nothing like a live-fire to really understand the task. Better to infiltrate my arm than do it to a casualty that actually requires the IV to stay alive.

    To sum up: training is constant. Closing the shop for training indicates that the leader may not be able to handle the mission and training.

    I am sure many of you will come up with exceptions, but that's how I see it.
    When things go wrong in your command, start searching for the reason in increasingly larger concentric circles around your own desk.
    -GEN Bruce C. Clarke

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