Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 49

Thread: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Korea
    Posts
    428
    Likes (Received)
    14
    Thanks (Received)
    1

    Default OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Just got work from a friend stationed at OSAN AB Korea that the MSG Commander has ruled that no one will be receiving BAS anymore. I asked about shift workers and was told that unless they are missing more then 80% of their meals they can no longer receive BAS and if they are currently receiving BAS they will be having it removed and cut off. Is this true, has anyone heard of anything about this? Also, as a shift worker in tech school I remember having to fill out cards for missed meals, would this still apply here?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    858
    Likes (Received)
    553
    Thanks (Received)
    58

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Wouldn't surprise me. As the AF continues to squeeze the rock to find out where to find $ this is an easy find. MSG/CC asks comptroller how much does base pay in BAS to dorm residents. Comptroller answers $175K. MSG/CC turns to MSG/CD and asks how much is this per year. MSG/CD (a USAFA-grad) whips out his/her Blackberry and calculates, then proudly tells MSG/CC $2.1M. MSG/CC then turns to FSS/CC and asks how many hours is the DFAC open, Flight Kitchen etc. MSG/CC now knows that DFAC and Flight kitchen covers 5 meal periods per day.
    Twenty seven powerpoint slides later (with 3 COAs), and BOOM. NO BAS FOR YOU!!!
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Beyond the Rim
    Posts
    2,991
    Likes (Received)
    290
    Thanks (Received)
    30

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    If the kitchen or DFAC is open for 5 meals a day AND it's accessible by the dorm population (without a car) I haven't got a problem with this. However, a lot of DFACs have stopped midnight meal, and if there is no ready transport to the flight kitchen, then this is a foul.
    Newton's First Law of Motion

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Air, Space, and Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,996
    Likes (Received)
    251
    Thanks (Received)
    44

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by technomage1 View Post
    If the kitchen or DFAC is open for 5 meals a day AND it's accessible by the dorm population (without a car) I haven't got a problem with this. However, a lot of DFACs have stopped midnight meal, and if there is no ready transport to the flight kitchen, then this is a foul.
    Summed up my response; shift work alone shouldn't justify BAS, must be meal availability... such as command post folks who can't leave to go get chow or Airmen working hours/locations that can't access chow during DFAC hours.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

    Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.


    Chief Runner Amok of the Troll Cabal

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dayon, Ohio
    Posts
    1,876
    Likes (Received)
    473
    Thanks (Received)
    31

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowless View Post
    Just got work from a friend stationed at OSAN AB Korea that the MSG Commander has ruled that no one will be receiving BAS anymore. I asked about shift workers and was told that unless they are missing more then 80% of their meals they can no longer receive BAS and if they are currently receiving BAS they will be having it removed and cut off. Is this true, has anyone heard of anything about this? Also, as a shift worker in tech school I remember having to fill out cards for missed meals, would this still apply here?
    Interesting that you just summarized almost exactly what the regulation says regarding this. The wing commander (can delegate to MSG commander) is responsible for making sure that that ESM (Essential Station Messing) is applied uniformly for all enlisted members permanently assigned to single Government quarters at the same installation, station, base or ship. Exceptions may be made only when assigned duties cause an individual to miss more than 20 percent of their meals the Government furnishes on a monthly basis. (Source: AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.8)

    If a member misses less than 20 percent of avaliable meals they can be refunded the meals that were missed due to performing duties. AFMAN 65-116 V1 25.2.3. Refunding Missed Meals: A member on ESM who misses meals due to work schedule conflicts is entitled to a refund for missed meals. A PI03 is used to refund meal collections to members who miss any meals (due to official reasons and providing commanderís approval has been acquired) that have already collected via a DN transaction (see Figure 25.6 for PI transaction format). Use DD Form 1475, Basic Allowance for Subsistence Ė Certification, as the source document for missed meals (see Figure 25.2). For more on the PI transaction, see paragraph 25.9.

    So basically it sounds like the MSG commander realizes that the BAS program is being abused. The MSG commander also realizes that BAS review is supposed to be conducted quarterly and if it were discovered in a UCI that procedures were not being followed it would become a write-up. The important question here is whether or not the shift workers are in fact missing more than 20% of meals or is it just more conveinent for them to recieve BAS? Each individual unit would need to determine the number of meals avaliable (number or meals daily times number of days in the month) then multiply by .2. If the member is misisng more meals than that they and will continue to do so they are entitled to BAS. If not they should track missed meals on DD1475 and be reimbursed only for meals missed due to official duties.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Frunchard.
    Posts
    777
    Likes (Received)
    121
    Thanks (Received)
    6

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    What about "convenience" to the chow hall? Convenience can be somewhat of a subjective term in this case, but how far should someone without a car have to go to eat? Doesn't affect me, just playing devil's advocate.

    Does this also apply to SNCO's? On the subject of convenience, the chow hall at Kunsan was a pretty good walk from where I lived and worked. The Osan chow hall is close to all the dorms plus the flight kitchen is close to "most" workcenters. The line there got long on steak day, which was not very convenient.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dayon, Ohio
    Posts
    1,876
    Likes (Received)
    473
    Thanks (Received)
    31

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by 71Fish View Post
    What about "convenience" to the chow hall? Convenience can be somewhat of a subjective term in this case, but how far should someone without a car have to go to eat? Doesn't affect me, just playing devil's advocate.
    AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.6 6.8.6. Location of dining facility makes use impracticable. Commanding officers will determine when the location of a government mess, in relation to members' duty location, makes the use of the dining facility impracticable.

    This is completely commander's discretion. They would need to weigh several factors like how long it takes to walk to the dining facility. They would also need to consider if the lunch break given is long enough to make this walk. They would also want to compare the walk to the dining facility versus the walk to other locations. So to answer your question it is a commander decision but should be applied uniformly to everyone.

    Does this also apply to SNCO's? On the subject of convenience, the chow hall at Kunsan was a pretty good walk from where I lived and worked. The Osan chow hall is close to all the dorms plus the flight kitchen is close to "most" workcenters. The line there got long on steak day, which was not very convenient.
    Glad you asked this is my favorite part. (SNCOs are automatically granted BAS because of their "responsibilties")

    AFMAN 65-116 V2 6.8.8.1. Not collecting for meal charges. Enlisted members may receive BAS without meal deductions only when they are not furnished government meals or when granted permission to mess separately, unless provided meals by military treatment facilities (see 6.8.8 above). Automatic authority to mess separately is granted to:

    6.8.8.1.1. E-7, E-8s, and E-9s.

    6.8.8.1.2. Enlisted member residing with dependents at the memberís permanent duty station (exception non-command sponsored dependents).

    6.8.8.1.3. Military couples assigned to the same installation or adjacent installations and maintaining common family quarters.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    retired usa
    Posts
    859
    Likes (Received)
    56
    Thanks (Received)
    8

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_KO View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me. As the AF continues to squeeze the rock to find out where to find $ this is an easy find. MSG/CC asks comptroller how much does base pay in BAS to dorm residents. Comptroller answers $175K. MSG/CC turns to MSG/CD and asks how much is this per year. MSG/CD (a USAFA-grad) whips out his/her Blackberry and calculates, then proudly tells MSG/CC $2.1M. MSG/CC then turns to FSS/CC and asks how many hours is the DFAC open, Flight Kitchen etc. MSG/CC now knows that DFAC and Flight kitchen covers 5 meal periods per day.
    Twenty seven powerpoint slides later (with 3 COAs), and BOOM. NO BAS FOR YOU!!!
    This brings up some awesome memories of Osan and the whole BAS saving money or having TSgt and below eat at the dining facility. I had an awesome shirt who believed all SF should be on BAS and need some "ammo" to go at Services with. I had a staff position and decided to help out our shirt by using Services way of accounting for food against Services. The cashier would ring up my meal and I always asked for a receipt. It turns out Services marks up the cost of the food for numerous reasons from the actual cost but used the actual cost of the food on wing staff slides to document the savings. I was costing the AF $1200/month on average due to the amount of food I was eating in the chow hall and my peers were around $750/month according to their receipts. BAS was around $250 so where was the cost savings? My shirt used 3 months worth of receipts to talk to the Services shirt about why SF needs to be on BAS. Ofcourse the Services shirt called our shirts bluff and said it was not going to happen regardless. This ofcourse was elevated to MSG level but SF is under the MSG however our CC and the MSG CC were rivals and the MSG CC was making our CC life hell for other reasons so the day finally came for a Wing CC to ask how things were going in the dining facility, were there any problems, how could we do things better for the Amn? Our CC had the 3 months of receipts with him and stood up to address the possibility for some huge savings that could potentially be shifted to increase sortie generation. The Wing CC saw the MSG CC turn immediately red and asked them both to stay after. See in the SF world if you want to get the Wing CCs attention mention sortie generation. Hide the actual reason for the change and twist how the change will directly contribute to increased sortie generation. We still stayed on BAS and the Services CC had some explaining to do to the MSG CC and Wing CC about the receipts my CC had in his hand. The Services CC had to conduct an extended survey of actual costs to see what the real savings were and the survey did not end until after I pcsed.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Dayon, Ohio
    Posts
    1,876
    Likes (Received)
    473
    Thanks (Received)
    31

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by tiredretiredE7 View Post
    This brings up some awesome memories of Osan and the whole BAS saving money or having TSgt and below eat at the dining facility. I had an awesome shirt who believed all SF should be on BAS and need some "ammo" to go at Services with. I had a staff position and decided to help out our shirt by using Services way of accounting for food against Services. The cashier would ring up my meal and I always asked for a receipt. It turns out Services marks up the cost of the food for numerous reasons from the actual cost but used the actual cost of the food on wing staff slides to document the savings. I was costing the AF $1200/month on average due to the amount of food I was eating in the chow hall and my peers were around $750/month according to their receipts. BAS was around $250 so where was the cost savings? My shirt used 3 months worth of receipts to talk to the Services shirt about why SF needs to be on BAS. Ofcourse the Services shirt called our shirts bluff and said it was not going to happen regardless. This ofcourse was elevated to MSG level but SF is under the MSG however our CC and the MSG CC were rivals and the MSG CC was making our CC life hell for other reasons so the day finally came for a Wing CC to ask how things were going in the dining facility, were there any problems, how could we do things better for the Amn? Our CC had the 3 months of receipts with him and stood up to address the possibility for some huge savings that could potentially be shifted to increase sortie generation. The Wing CC saw the MSG CC turn immediately red and asked them both to stay after. See in the SF world if you want to get the Wing CCs attention mention sortie generation. Hide the actual reason for the change and twist how the change will directly contribute to increased sortie generation. We still stayed on BAS and the Services CC had some explaining to do to the MSG CC and Wing CC about the receipts my CC had in his hand. The Services CC had to conduct an extended survey of actual costs to see what the real savings were and the survey did not end until after I pcsed.
    The part I bolded has always pissed me off. At my first base Security Forces was under the impression that they were automatically granted BAS even those individuals living in the dorms. For the most part they got away with it and other AFSCs started following suit. It got to the point that basically only about 40% of the dorm Airmen were actually on a meal card. This in turned reduced the dining facility budget to almost nothing and the quality of food became an issue. The wing commander decided to do what was mentioned above. All dorm Airmen authorized BAS needed to obtain MSG approval. This allowed MSG to track the reasons. I have never understood how SF should automatically be authorized BAS but other AFSCs shouldn't. Just stop by the dining facility at just about any base and you will normally see at least 3 SF cruisers parked in the lot. Most of the SF NCOs choose to go to the chow hall because of the price and it is one of very few places they are actually authorized to drive their crusier to.

    The bottom line is every single shop in the AF has to manage their personnel to allow for meal breaks. If I had to allow my Amn at finance to go to lunch while still maintaing a customer service counter, and phone lines why can't SF manage their personnel the same? Hint it involves staggering your personnel on lunch breaks which means everyone cannot go at the same time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    retired usa
    Posts
    859
    Likes (Received)
    56
    Thanks (Received)
    8

    Default Re: OSAN AB personal and shift workers being denied BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    The part I bolded has always pissed me off. At my first base Security Forces was under the impression that they were automatically granted BAS even those individuals living in the dorms. For the most part they got away with it and other AFSCs started following suit. It got to the point that basically only about 40% of the dorm Airmen were actually on a meal card. This in turned reduced the dining facility budget to almost nothing and the quality of food became an issue. The wing commander decided to do what was mentioned above. All dorm Airmen authorized BAS needed to obtain MSG approval. This allowed MSG to track the reasons. I have never understood how SF should automatically be authorized BAS but other AFSCs shouldn't. Just stop by the dining facility at just about any base and you will normally see at least 3 SF cruisers parked in the lot. Most of the SF NCOs choose to go to the chow hall because of the price and it is one of very few places they are actually authorized to drive their crusier to.

    The bottom line is every single shop in the AF has to manage their personnel to allow for meal breaks. If I had to allow my Amn at finance to go to lunch while still maintaing a customer service counter, and phone lines why can't SF manage their personnel the same? Hint it involves staggering your personnel on lunch breaks which means everyone cannot go at the same time.
    There two assignments out of 20 years where we could not get troops to the chow hall due to manning and a lack of vehicles which would result in breaking some timed responses. The rest of my assignments we could and did use the dining facility. I can say that the AF lost every month I ate at the dining facilities and BAS would have been much cheaper in my case. Maybe I am just a big eater? So SRG this is one of the few posts I do mostly agree with you.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •