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Thread: NSA Program

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    Default NSA Program

    My third attempt to position this Air Force topic on the Air Force Forum.

    If my lifelong friends Joe Fives, Larry Harry, Bill Randol and Dick Ristaino were still with us, they would remember "Black Tuesday," June 16, 1959, when we listened to two North Korean MiG-17s attacking a Navy P4M-1Q Mercator reconnaissance aircraft of squadron VQ-1 over the Sea of Japan.

    Later learned the P4M-1Q pilot, who saved his crew and plane after being fired upon, was Vincent Anania (1920-2008). He was the father of Elizabeth Edwards (1949-2010), wife of a prominent presidential candidate. They're gone now, all of them.

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    My third attempt to position this Air Force topic on the Air Force Forum.

    If my lifelong friends Joe Fives, Larry Harry, Bill Randol and Dick Ristaino were still with us, they would remember "Black Tuesday," June 16, 1959, when we listened to two North Korean MiG-17s attacking a Navy P4M-1Q Mercator reconnaissance aircraft of squadron VQ-1 over the Sea of Japan.

    Later learned the P4M-1Q pilot, who saved his crew and plane after being fired upon, was Vincent Anania (1920-2008). He was the father of Elizabeth Edwards (1949-2010), wife of a prominent presidential candidate. They're gone now, all of them.
    Very sad. I think examples like this are the best reminder of our own mortality. As I age it I notice the deaths of people who I know, or am familiar with, much more than I used to. Each time a death of a friend or a high profile person occurs it makes me realize that my time is limited. It also makes me feel as if I should have spent more time with those people when I had the chance.

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Might I suggest another title for your thread? Try using P4M-1Q Mercator Shoot Down

    I think people will see “NSA Program” and think you are talking about the NSA surveillance program that is in the news lately.

    I am familiar with the program you reference, generically it is known as Advisory Support or Threat Warning and it is a joint service program. It was called a number of different names during the course of the Cold War. I worked in a number of jobs related to that program and its later variations for a large part of my career.

    Here is a short description of the of the shoot down you are referring to:

    P4M-1Q BUNO
    June 16, 1959, Aircraft was on a routine recce mission over the Sea of Japan off the North Korean coast. While the Mercator was at 7,000 ft off Wonsan, North Korea, two MIGs attacked with cannon fire. A few moments later, the tailgunner, 20 year old PO2 Eugene Corder, collapsed with more than 40 shrapnel wounds. Now totally unarmed, the Mercator continued to be attacked by the MIGs at LCDR Donald Mayer dove for the deck in an attempt to escape. By the time Mayer reached 50 ft altitude above the Sea of Japan , the P4M's two starboard engines and rudder had been shot away. On the way down the copilot. , LCDR Vince Anania, could see the Red Stars painted on the fuselages of the North Korean fighters as they made six more passes at the crippled P4M. The Mercator was barely able to limp back to Japan and make an emergency landing at Miho Air Base. LCDR Anania was a former all-American footbsll player at the Naval Academy and his extraordinary strength was a significant factor in keeping the cripple plane airborne. Petty Officer Corder recovered from his wounds, receiving a Purple Heart. VQ-1 records show DFC's were presented to the pilot and copliot, while Air Medals went to the remainder of the crew.


    Where you and your comrades at Osan AB listing to this incident or in another reconnaissance aircraft over the peninsula?
    It is my intention to discuss the current news about NSA surveillance on the Air Force Forums,not in the In The News Forum. I initially introduced the topic of current NSA surveillance with a roster of points made by a retired Air Force colonel.

    I was not flying that day. I was on the ground, as were the four airmen I named.

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    My third attempt to position this Air Force topic on the Air Force Forum.

    If my lifelong friends Joe Fives, Larry Harry, Bill Randol and Dick Ristaino were still with us, they would remember "Black Tuesday," June 16, 1959, when we listened to two North Korean MiG-17s attacking a Navy P4M-1Q Mercator reconnaissance aircraft of squadron VQ-1 over the Sea of Japan.

    Later learned the P4M-1Q pilot, who saved his crew and plane after being fired upon, was Vincent Anania (1920-2008). He was the father of Elizabeth Edwards (1949-2010), wife of a prominent presidential candidate. They're gone now, all of them.
    Might I suggest another title for your thread? Try using P4M-1Q Mercator Shoot Down

    I think people will see “NSA Program” and think you are talking about the NSA surveillance program that is in the news lately.

    I am familiar with the program you reference, generically it is known as Advisory Support or Threat Warning and it is a joint service program. It was called a number of different names during the course of the Cold War. I worked in a number of jobs related to that program and its later variations for a large part of my career.

    Here is a short description of the of the shoot down you are referring to:

    P4M-1Q BUNO
    June 16, 1959, Aircraft was on a routine recce mission over the Sea of Japan off the North Korean coast. While the Mercator was at 7,000 ft off Wonsan, North Korea, two MIGs attacked with cannon fire. A few moments later, the tailgunner, 20 year old PO2 Eugene Corder, collapsed with more than 40 shrapnel wounds. Now totally unarmed, the Mercator continued to be attacked by the MIGs at LCDR Donald Mayer dove for the deck in an attempt to escape. By the time Mayer reached 50 ft altitude above the Sea of Japan , the P4M's two starboard engines and rudder had been shot away. On the way down the copilot. , LCDR Vince Anania, could see the Red Stars painted on the fuselages of the North Korean fighters as they made six more passes at the crippled P4M. The Mercator was barely able to limp back to Japan and make an emergency landing at Miho Air Base. LCDR Anania was a former all-American footbsll player at the Naval Academy and his extraordinary strength was a significant factor in keeping the cripple plane airborne. Petty Officer Corder recovered from his wounds, receiving a Purple Heart. VQ-1 records show DFC's were presented to the pilot and copliot, while Air Medals went to the remainder of the crew.


    Where you and your comrades at Osan AB listening to this incident or in another reconnaissance aircraft over the peninsula?
    Last edited by Absinthe Anecdote; 06-16-2013 at 10:58 AM.

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Might I suggest another title for your thread? Try using P4M-1Q Mercator Shoot Down

    I think people will see “NSA Program” and think you are talking about the NSA surveillance program that is in the news lately.
    Yup. This is the problem.
    Must be nice to have breakfest with family....Maintenance guys have got it made-BRUWIN

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert F. Dorr View Post
    It is my intention to discuss the current news about NSA surveillance on the Air Force Forums,not in the In The News Forum. I initially introduced the topic of current NSA surveillance with a roster of points made by a retired Air Force colonel.
    Good job then
    Must be nice to have breakfest with family....Maintenance guys have got it made-BRUWIN

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Might I suggest another title for your thread? Try using P4M-1Q Mercator Shoot Down

    I think people will see “NSA Program” and think you are talking about the NSA surveillance program that is in the news lately.

    I am familiar with the program you reference, generically it is known as Advisory Support or Threat Warning and it is a joint service program. It was called a number of different names during the course of the Cold War. I worked in a number of jobs related to that program and its later variations for a large part of my career.

    Here is a short description of the of the shoot down you are referring to:

    P4M-1Q BUNO
    June 16, 1959, Aircraft was on a routine recce mission over the Sea of Japan off the North Korean coast. While the Mercator was at 7,000 ft off Wonsan, North Korea, two MIGs attacked with cannon fire. A few moments later, the tailgunner, 20 year old PO2 Eugene Corder, collapsed with more than 40 shrapnel wounds. Now totally unarmed, the Mercator continued to be attacked by the MIGs at LCDR Donald Mayer dove for the deck in an attempt to escape. By the time Mayer reached 50 ft altitude above the Sea of Japan , the P4M's two starboard engines and rudder had been shot away. On the way down the copilot. , LCDR Vince Anania, could see the Red Stars painted on the fuselages of the North Korean fighters as they made six more passes at the crippled P4M. The Mercator was barely able to limp back to Japan and make an emergency landing at Miho Air Base. LCDR Anania was a former all-American footbsll player at the Naval Academy and his extraordinary strength was a significant factor in keeping the cripple plane airborne. Petty Officer Corder recovered from his wounds, receiving a Purple Heart. VQ-1 records show DFC's were presented to the pilot and copliot, while Air Medals went to the remainder of the crew.


    Where you and your comrades at Osan AB listing to this incident or in another reconnaissance aircraft over the peninsula?
    It is my intention to discuss the current news about NSA surveillance on the Air Force Forums,not in the In The News Forum. I initially introduced the topic of current NSA surveillance with a roster of points made by a retired Air Force colonel.

    I was not flying that day. I was on the ground, as were the four airmen I named.

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Must be nice to have breakfest with family....Maintenance guys have got it made-BRUWIN

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    What particularly is relevant about the NSA program to the AF (and thus the AF Forum) other than the comments were from a ret. AF col.?

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    Default Re: NSA Program

    Quote Originally Posted by imnohero View Post
    What particularly is relevant about the NSA program to the AF (and thus the AF Forum) other than the comments were from a ret. AF col.?
    I don't get the linkage to the attempted P4M-1Q shoot down in 1959 either. Other than they involved SIGINT programs, albeit very different ones separated by a space of 54 years.

    While it is true that the Air Force maintains the largest Cryptologic Service Element, I would say this is not even the same subject.

    Since today is the anniversary of the P4M-1Q incident, I suggest we talk about that. Tell us a little more about your buddies and how you felt that day. I would really like to hear about that; we can talk about the NSA crap that’s in the news some other time.

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