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Thread: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

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    Default Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    Obviously this is not all inclusive and there a some +/- for the exceptions but...

    Those who get out after a few years of service generally have their shit together, they got their degree, or they were in a job that pays really well when you get out. They don't have that desire and/or need for power that most lifers have.

    Those who stay in 20+ years on the other hand...think about it...obviously they would not stay in if they had any other option. Who in their right mind would turn down better money, better living conditions, getting away from the micromanaging, childish behavior that is AF leadership if they had ANY other choice.

    I think this is why some of the old timers seem upset when a young super troop gets out...because they know this young man/woman is better than they are, and able to make it on the outside when they were not.

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    I think there's some both ways. Yeah it sucks... but if its a world you're familiar with, and have gained some rank and credibility in - its a decent career. But you're right, there's lots of worthless dirtbags who really should have been forced out ages ago.

    What REALLY baffles me are the careerists who constantly bitch and moan about how much the military sucks. If it sucks so much, why are you staying in?

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    Ummm retired at 38...hard to beat this.

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    I think there's some both ways. Yeah it sucks... but if its a world you're familiar with, and have gained some rank and credibility in - its a decent career. But you're right, there's lots of worthless dirtbags who really should have been forced out ages ago.

    What REALLY baffles me are the careerists who constantly bitch and moan about how much the military sucks. If it sucks so much, why are you staying in?
    Yeah, if a place sucks so much that all you do is bitch about it on a daily basis, you should just get out. Get far away. I agree.

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    I've stayed in because I enjoy what I do... to those who want to get paid more and not deal with military "BS," more power to them.

    And if the the EPR and WAPS worked like it should, those worthless hangers on wouldn't get promoted high enough to stay in past 20.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

    Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    I've stayed in because I enjoy what I do... to those who want to get paid more and not deal with military "BS," more power to them.

    And if the the EPR and WAPS worked like it should, those worthless hangers on wouldn't get promoted high enough to stay in past 20.
    The way it works for some is the way it shouldn't work for others, and it is all riding on the worth of the rater and the chain of command. We currently have a guy who is "filling in all the blocks" - bake sales, burger burns, off-base volunteering, base private orgs such as the E5/E6 groups, education, squadron activities such as "proffer" for CC call and other things. He's all over the place...to the point that he is rarely at work! He very rarely is on a crew from a project's beginning to end.

    Yet in the eyes of his rater and his chain of command, he is a "super star". Tell that to the workers who are picking up his slack during the duty day.

    I can see why some get out early. But the majority of the time, I am reminded why it is necessary to stay in.

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    I don't really think that it's possible to generalize who stays in and who gets out.

    Not everyone who gets out "has their shit together." Other than the simple desire to lead the civilian life, I'd say it's about 50/50 among first termers: some get out, because they have better things waiting for them on the outside. Others are total pieces of shit who are discipline problems for whom much of their military experience consists of having disciplinary actions taken against them all the time, so they get out because of that.

    To say that one-termers have their shit together, while careerists are people who wouldn't make it on the outside... just reeks of sour grapes. Military life isn't for everyone, but it IS for some.

    Some people stay, because they fear what's on the outside. And for the past 10 years, this has been a legitimate fear. I got out after 11 years back in February 2011. I had the fear. I knew it was a risk, and I took it. Others don't want to take chances. That doesn't say anything negative about them, in my opinion.

    Honestly, I only stayed because my dumb ass got married to a worthless piece of shit - a military brat who was born, brought up, and bred to be a military housewife. When it was time for me to get out after my first term, being the good husband I was trying to be at the time, I wanted it to be a family decision. In the battle with my wife at the time, I lost and ended up reenlisting.

    So then, I was a bitter man who was still in. And this is pretty common, by the way. I hated her for this, and we were divorced less than two years later - as I pretty much gave her the verbal beatdown whenever I had a bad day at work (which was damn near everyday), and kept telling her that it was her fault for making me reenlist.
    "We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people."

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bonham View Post
    I think there's some both ways. Yeah it sucks... but if its a world you're familiar with, and have gained some rank and credibility in - its a decent career. But you're right, there's lots of worthless dirtbags who really should have been forced out ages ago.

    What REALLY baffles me are the careerists who constantly bitch and moan about how much the military sucks. If it sucks so much, why are you staying in?
    This is why the military needs a 401K type retirement system as opposed to a pension. If the military simply provided a TSP match people who bitch and complain all the time could leave. All they would be missing out on is a few more years of 401K match. There are plenty of others employers that provide matching funds for TSP. Under this system worthless people would basically have to admit the only reason they are still in is because they are getting paid far more than they are worth.

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    I would say 80% of those who do 20+ are among the best, with the remainder just there to draw a retirement check. Many times that is no fault of their own, with our retirement system built upon that 20 year model (and add the High-3 pay multiplier). I would wholeheartedly support changing our retirement system to a 401K style (with matching funds on a sliding scale based upon TIS) similar to what the GS system (FERS) and most civilian employers have. That would truly empower the individual and would greatly reduce the number of ROAD Airmen (Es & Os). Also would eliminate severance pay and provide those that serve less than 20 with another tangible benefit from their service. This is one point that I disagree with AFSA, VFW, Legion etc. on...our retirement system has to change.
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

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    Default Re: Do the best or the worst people end up doing 20+ years...think about it

    The problem with scrapping a defined benefit plan, and going with a defined contribution plan is that everyone in the military is promoted from within. I think they make some exceptions for professionals, such as physicians, for the purpose of matching pay; but outside of that, everyone is promoted from within. There's no hiring management from the outside, like there is in the civilian sector.

    The very reason why employers have been favoring defined contribution plans, is because of the increase of hiring management from the outside in the most recent decades.

    Unless the military does that, a defined contribution plan will not be a good fit.
    "We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people."

    ~Paul Ryan

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