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Thread: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

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    Default Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    I've been reading posts on how government employees are being screwed on pay and you have many GS-12's doing the equivalent work of a GS-7 and so on. And about hiring freezes

    I'm trying to make sense of this because before I retired from the Air Force, my goal was to get the WG-8 position at the dining hall on Elmendorf as a cook, since a civilian retired after some 40 years and I was going to replace him. The civilian cook boss and the deputy commander said the job was on the books, but I had also heard other rumors that 2 civilians cooks would had to quit or retire for one position to be available. Well, a year later, one of the civilian cooks died and still no posting months later

    The food service giant Aramark took over for most of the food service operations on base in late 2010 and I think that could be part of the reason why it's not happening

    It's a shame this is happening; many retirees and those separating are best suited for government employment at retirement. I mean, you're not going to make $26-$27 an hour as a cook, motor vehicle operator, and the like in the civilian world!

    As a final note, a WG-6 position I worked when I was on terminal leave at Galena, Alaska was posted a few months ago and paying the exact same hourly wages in 2013 as it was in 2011. So pay has been frozen until further notice?

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    You know who's "best suited for government (military) employment"... AIRMEN!

    I hope they get rid of most of the civilians and convert most billets back to military. While there are some positions, like the historian that are fine having a civilian homestead in them, for most, run off the dead weight and give us back Airmen who can deploy, do details, and not throw out the BS "It's not in my PD" nonsense everytime you need them to do something.
    Last edited by CrustySMSgt; 04-25-2013 at 05:39 AM.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrustySMSgt View Post
    You know who's "best suited for government (military) employment"... AIRMEN!

    I hope they get rid of most of the civilians and convert most billets back to military. While there are some positions, like the historian that are fine having a civilian homestead in them, for most, run off the dead weight and give us back Airmen who can deploy, do details, and not throw out the BS "It's not in my PD" nonsense everytime you need them to do something.
    I absolutely agree with you but for a different reason. AD Amn is much cheaper than civilians. There are simply too many GS-10s doing the same job and working next to a SrA. Just convert those positions back to AD Amn and the savings will be immediate. The same goes for all of the contractor jobs. The theory was a government contractor would save money because the government would not have the long-term payout for healthcare and retirement. Those payments would be made by the civilian company. Well guess who filled the civilian contractor positions? Recently retired AD so there isn't any cost savings. Only remaining problem is for the AF to go back to congress and explain what I just said and admit the AF was wrong during the initial agreements for the use of civilian contractors. However, BigBlue still has a lot of egg in its eye from all of the recent mismanagement and this would make BigBlue look even more incompetent. And no, this is not the fault of a Chief somewhere, Bruwin.

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    I am a GS-11. I am the equivelent in rank to a Capt.
    "Respect My Authoritah!" - Eric Cartman

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRUWIN View Post
    I am a GS-11. I am the equivelent in rank to a Capt.
    Hopefully they give you a nice severance package when your position is converted back to a AD E4 slot.

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    PPBES (that's Planning, Programming, Budgeting, and Execution System, Bob) 101:
    The number of military positions is chiseled in granite.
    The number of funded civilian positions can change with each POM (Program Objective Memorandum, Bob) cycle (every 2 years).
    You can re-program funding for civilian pay, allowing an increase in the number of civilian positions provided the is a valid requirement.
    Overall positions are officer, enlisted and civilian, programming factors are used based on the average cost of each. There is no grade/rank involved until the position is on the UMD (Unit Manpower Document, Bob).

    Contractors (A-76, advisory and assistance, slimy, other) will be discussed later.
    This calls for a delicate blend of psychology and extreme violence. Vyvyan, The Young Ones

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by jondstewart View Post
    It's a shame this is happening; many retirees and those separating are best suited for government employment at retirement. I mean, you're not going to make $26-$27 an hour as a cook, motor vehicle operator, and the like in the civilian world!

    Quote Originally Posted by tiredretiredE7 View Post
    I absolutely agree with you but for a different reason. AD Amn is much cheaper than civilians. There are simply too many GS-10s doing the same job and working next to a SrA. Just convert those positions back to AD Amn and the savings will be immediate. The same goes for all of the contractor jobs. The theory was a government contractor would save money because the government would not have the long-term payout for healthcare and retirement. Those payments would be made by the civilian company. Well guess who filled the civilian contractor positions? Recently retired AD so there isn't any cost savings. Only remaining problem is for the AF to go back to congress and explain what I just said and admit the AF was wrong during the initial agreements for the use of civilian contractors. However, BigBlue still has a lot of egg in its eye from all of the recent mismanagement and this would make BigBlue look even more incompetent. And no, this is not the fault of a Chief somewhere, Bruwin.
    The above comment absolutely makes your point! We're paying someone $26-27 an hour to flip eggs?!? And people actually think that makes sense?!?
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

    Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiredretiredE7 View Post
    I absolutely agree with you but for a different reason. AD Amn is much cheaper than civilians. There are simply too many GS-10s doing the same job and working next to a SrA. Just convert those positions back to AD Amn and the savings will be immediate. The same goes for all of the contractor jobs. The theory was a government contractor would save money because the government would not have the long-term payout for healthcare and retirement. Those payments would be made by the civilian company. Well guess who filled the civilian contractor positions? Recently retired AD so there isn't any cost savings. Only remaining problem is for the AF to go back to congress and explain what I just said and admit the AF was wrong during the initial agreements for the use of civilian contractors. However, BigBlue still has a lot of egg in its eye from all of the recent mismanagement and this would make BigBlue look even more incompetent. And no, this is not the fault of a Chief somewhere, Bruwin.

    Your point # 1 - govt will save by not having to pay healthcare and retirement for contractors

    PLUS

    Your point # 2 - those contractor jobs went to retired AD

    Does not add up to "so there isn't any cost savings".

    The govt was going to pay healthcare and retirement for those AD retirees whether they came back to work as contractors or sat at home on their ass.

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by jondstewart View Post
    I've been reading posts on how government employees are being screwed on pay and you have many GS-12's doing the equivalent work of a GS-7 and so on. And about hiring freezes

    I'm trying to make sense of this because before I retired from the Air Force, my goal was to get the WG-8 position at the dining hall on Elmendorf as a cook, since a civilian retired after some 40 years and I was going to replace him. The civilian cook boss and the deputy commander said the job was on the books, but I had also heard other rumors that 2 civilians cooks would had to quit or retire for one position to be available. Well, a year later, one of the civilian cooks died and still no posting months later

    The food service giant Aramark took over for most of the food service operations on base in late 2010 and I think that could be part of the reason why it's not happening

    It's a shame this is happening; many retirees and those separating are best suited for government employment at retirement. I mean, you're not going to make $26-$27 an hour as a cook, motor vehicle operator, and the like in the civilian world!

    As a final note, a WG-6 position I worked when I was on terminal leave at Galena, Alaska was posted a few months ago and paying the exact same hourly wages in 2013 as it was in 2011. So pay has been frozen until further notice?
    You know who the military should have in those positions? Probably AD folks. You're already getting a retirement check and benefits. The military doesn't owe you post military employment.

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    Default Re: Government employment with the military becoming a thing of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by JD2780 View Post
    You know who the military should have in those positions? Probably AD folks. You're already getting a retirement check and benefits. The military doesn't owe you post military employment.
    When I went through TAPS at Wright-Patt they asked the class what their employment goals were after separating/retiring. Out of about 20 people I think 2 had plans to not seek employment at all 2 had plans to find work in the civilian sector and the other 16 were focused on getting a position on the government gravy train. The problem is that no one ever leaves government positions and the people leaving active duty grows every day. There simply are not enough positions for everyone who wants them. If the government was smart they could figure out simple supply and demand and pay less for the positions and people would still take them. That is how you save money with contractors and GS employees. You create a position that pays less.

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