Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25

Thread: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    4,357
    Likes (Received)
    319
    Thanks (Received)
    43

    Default Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    I came across this and had to wonder, do people REALLY believe that if a homosexual fails at something it is due to discrimmination?

    "Country music fans are notorious for excommunicating those whom they perceive as undesirable (see Wright, Chely)."

    The FACTS are that she had a few hits in the late '90s early '00s...in '03 her label dropped her because her record sales sucked...she released a record independantly in '04...got picked up by a label in '05 that did ok...released another one in '08-the first single from that one didn't make the airwaves until '10.

    She came out in '10....she previously had a very public tryst with Brad Paisley (in '00)...

    So the question is, did her coming out in 2010 really CAUSE her failure as a country music artist? OR is she a failed country music artist that just happens to be gay?

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/opinio...tml?hpt=hp_bn7
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    4,357
    Likes (Received)
    319
    Thanks (Received)
    43

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    I don't know anything about Chely Wright, and whether her homosexuality or activism has affected her popularity. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, to be sure.

    But certainly country music fans have "excommunicated those whome they perceive as undersirable...would you like the "Dixie Chicks" example better? Though I dunno have they made a comeback?

    Not that country music fans are the only ones who do that...certainly, the left, hippie folk music fans do it too...Michelle Shocked anyone?
    IMO, the fact that her sales tanked BEFORE she came out (even privately) indicates that it might have been something OTHER than her sexual orientation... It just seems easier to say that everything is done because she is gay....

    Don't get me wrong, the Dixie Chicks thing...I remember that vividly, I am just wondering if some homosexuals may be blaming their failures on discrimination rather than accepting it for what it is...a failure (though to be perfectly fair, it wasn't Chely Wright that blamed her orientation for her failure)....
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    East
    Posts
    243
    Likes (Received)
    5
    Thanks (Received)
    1

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    I believe Chely Wright was referring to corporate Nashville, not necessarily her fans. I'm sure she did lose some fans when she came out, but I don't think it was really that many. And I certainly don't think that other country artists just started hating her when they woke up one morning. The fact is that she was not really relevent in Nashville when she came out so other artists probably just left it alone.

    The Dixie Chicks made a very highly publicized comment about our president while in a foreign country, at a time when emotions were still high about 9/11 and the war. Most of the outrage was ridiculous, but the fans were the ones coming out with the hate, not corporate Nashville. I think they were even nominated for a country music award that year...

    To answer the original question: yes, some people feel that failure is linked to discrimination. But other people don't feel that way. I think it all boils down to whether or not the person looks for discimination or not in the situation. Have they witnessed actual discrimination that caused the failure, or are they looking for it?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

    Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t.
    - Margaret Thatcher

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pasadena, California
    Posts
    735
    Likes (Received)
    101
    Thanks (Received)
    11

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    She came out with a cd call "Bumper of my SUV" if I remember it correctly. She did go around doing the whole USO tour back in 2004/2005 with that cd. She is a good singer, but I just don't think looking back now that she was a exceptional singer. She kept us entertained definitively and I actually bought the cd because it had a couple good songs on it.

    But that is not what led to her bad career. I just believe she wasn't pop enough for today's country female singers

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Francisco (Big Surprise)
    Posts
    2,233
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Thanks (Received)
    9

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    I like Chely Wright but it wasn't until after she came out and I watched the documentary, "Wish Me Away." I think think the question the OP asks is too narrow in its scope and definitely intention. To say Chely Wright country music career tanked because she came out as gay is the absolute wrong question. The real question is, "At what price?" Being GLBT in a homophobic society has a variety of disadvantages, from employment discrimination to not being your mates legal next-of-kin, everything in-between and finally the ultimate indignity--being murdered because of your sexuality.

    I think the CNN story mentioned Chely Wright in the broader context I outlined here. The other 'costs' include but are not limited to, internalized homophobia, shame , family estrangement and all the psychological effects that has on one's performance not only at work but in LIFE. The price for being GLBT one pays in cultures and societies where it's considered a "sin" or "unnatural" etc., is a high price indeed--sometime death. GLBT teens are 20 times more likely to commit suicide than straight teens.

    Ultimately as a society, we must ask ourselves, what price do we all pay when a particular class of citizens who run the gamut of unspectacular to extraordinary (same as other classes of people) are treated differently and less-than? We all lose when we don't embrace the amazing spectrum of difference that makes our species so very special.

    Chely Wright "Never Love You Enough"

    You giggle every time you say 'cockpit'

    -David Letterman "Top Ten ways to know you might not be ready to join the USAF"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    4,357
    Likes (Received)
    319
    Thanks (Received)
    43

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Well, I think a lot of people do that, gay, straight, black, white, female.

    I've heard a lot of white males complain that they didn't get into XX School or get XX Job because they are white male...couldn't be cuz the just weren't good enough, nope. Or didn't get BTZ because they didn't have a vagina, etc.

    Human nature...although, with how polarized our nation is politically, at least some of it is more than likely true. OTOH, what is wrong with wanting to listen to singers whose message you enjoy and agree with and not wanting to listen to those you don't? Seems almost common sense that if your activism is in disagreement with your market that your popularity will suffer.

    Again, I'm not talking about Chely Wright because I don't even know who she is.
    I agree 100% and the reason I thought of this is more than likely the recent trend to label any attacks against military personnel as hate crimes... I do think part of the reason for this jab against country music fans is that it is easy. What many people don't realize is that country music fans (true fans) don't really care much about non music crap. Look at the band Alabama....they started as a rock band but switched to country because it was easier to be successfull than it was in rock... Ray Charles was successful in country music... Kenny Rogers started as a Christian/Gospel singer... The lead singer from Hootie and the Blowfish is now a country star... Talent goes a long way regardless of race, gender, orientation... I didn't care for Chely Wright but never even had any idea about her orientation. Maybe the question isn't fair to the homosexual community because it is so common but...this article just seemed so wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERFX1024 View Post
    She came out with a cd call "Bumper of my SUV" if I remember it correctly. She did go around doing the whole USO tour back in 2004/2005 with that cd. She is a good singer, but I just don't think looking back now that she was a exceptional singer. She kept us entertained definitively and I actually bought the cd because it had a couple good songs on it.

    But that is not what led to her bad career. I just believe she wasn't pop enough for today's country female singers
    Nope...she didn't even come out to her family and friends until 2006....she had already failed more than once as a country singer by then....

    BTW, the "pop" influence of country music is why I don't like a lot of the new "country" singers. If I want pop, I will listen to pop... I blame Garth Brooks for that-unfair or not. He wasn't the first, it had been happening for decades but usually, there was a deliniation...Elvis had country records and pop records, same with any number of artists... Garth Brooks and Shaniah Twain (sp) were the first that i can recall that sold pop music as country music...

    Quote Originally Posted by F4CrewChick View Post
    I like Chely Wright but it wasn't until after she came out and I watched the documentary, "Wish Me Away." I think think the question the OP asks is too narrow in its scope and definitely intention. To say Chely Wright country music career tanked because she came out as gay is the absolute wrong question. The real question is, "At what price?" Being GLBT in a homophobic society has a variety of disadvantages, from employment discrimination to not being your mates legal next-of-kin, everything in-between and finally the ultimate indignity--being murdered because of your sexuality.

    I think the CNN story mentioned Chely Wright in the broader context I outlined here. The other 'costs' include but are not limited to, internalized homophobia, shame , family estrangement and all the psychological effects that has on one's performance not only at work but in LIFE. The price for being GLBT one pays in cultures and societies where it's considered a "sin" or "unnatural" etc., is a high price indeed--sometime death. GLBT teens are 20 times more likely to commit suicide than straight teens.

    Ultimately as a society, we must ask ourselves, what price do we all pay when a particular class of citizens who run the gamut of unspectacular to extraordinary (same as other classes of people) are treated differently and less-than? We all lose when we don't embrace the amazing spectrum of difference that makes our species so very special.
    I think you missed my entire point. It wasn't Chely Wright that made this assertation...it was the writer of the column. The facts indicate that her career tanked because of lack of talent or lack of producting commercially sellable music. The writer blamed her failure on her sexuality and the facts just don't support that. I make no bones about the fact that I never liked her music-not because of her sexuality, I just didn't like her music. As a matter of fact, I had no idea she was gay until I read the article and looked her up. You may think the article mentioned her in the broader context but the fact remains that he called country music fans homophobes and used someone that was unsuccessful BEFORE even she recognized her sexual orientation and in my opinon that is as wrong as if his assertation was true.

    Your questions are valid but don't really pertain to the question I asked...
    Last edited by Pullinteeth; 04-25-2013 at 12:12 AM.
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Francisco (Big Surprise)
    Posts
    2,233
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Thanks (Received)
    9

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pullinteeth View Post
    [ ]I think you missed my entire point. It wasn't Chely Wright that made this assertation...it was the writer of the column. The facts indicate that her career tanked because of lack of talent or lack of producting commercially sellable music. The writer blamed her failure on her sexuality and the facts just don't support that. I make no bones about the fact that I never liked her music-not because of her sexuality, I just didn't like her music. As a matter of fact, I had no idea she was gay until I read the article and looked her up. You may think the article mentioned her in the broader context but the fact remains that he called country music fans homophobes and used someone that was unsuccessful BEFORE even she recognized her sexual orientation and in my opinon that is as wrong as if his assertation was true.

    Your questions are valid but don't really pertain to the question I asked...
    I didn't at all 'miss your point'...I think you missed mine. I indeed referenced the CNN article and did not attribute the claim of career decline on anything--including the article. I pointed out the difficulties inherent in being in the closet and the pressures it can put on not only a career, but a life. Chely Wright I think does blame the 'country music industry' and its fans to some degree but she speaks about how truly it was her own responsibility to be true to herself but failed to because she believed her career would suffer it she came out as a lesbian.

    Country music fans in this nation are not culturally monolithic, but they do represent a demographic that tends toward social conservatism. Why is it that since her coming out as a lesbian, no country music stars have stepped up in support of her? Country radio doesn't play her music, even the old hits, just like they still rarely play the Dixie Chicks. I listen to country music; I like it but if you listen to terrestrial radio in particular, you can hear the tone and it is conservative; God, Country, the military and apple pie. They rarely stray into any culturally sensitive topics including LGBT rights or issues.

    The topic posed is, "Gay+Failure=Discrimination?" and the answer is a qualified, "yes." Yes because there is a general air of discrimination against GLBT people in this country. Ever heard of ENDA? It's the "Employment Non-Discrimination Act" and it keeps failing despite being offered in virtually every congress since 1994. Almost 20 years of the legislative body of this country saying GLBT people are not worth protecting. Of course we know DADT ended in only September 2011 yet spouses of AD military members do not have the same rights, responsibilities and benefits as their straight counterparts. So to say that the pressures of being LGBT in this culture can and do have negative effects on people would be a no-brainer. To blame all failures of LGBT people on 'society' and its various apparati would be disingenuous and obfuscates personal responsibility.

    I'm pretty sure I get you point; I hope I've made mine.
    You giggle every time you say 'cockpit'

    -David Letterman "Top Ten ways to know you might not be ready to join the USAF"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,706
    Likes (Received)
    720
    Thanks (Received)
    75

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Elton John, Freddy Mercury, etc, etc, etc...to blame the "failure" of a music career on sexual preference is naive (though I'll give you that these guys already had established careers).

    A homosexual finding it difficult in country music is no different than a white guy finding it difficult in R & B. These two music brands have specific audiences (as do other genres). If the listeners don't agree with the lifestyle or the stereotype of the lifestyle then they aren't going to listen. There are several excellent Christian Rock bands out there who play very good music. I'm sure that non-Christians don't spend a whole lot of time listening to it. There is no blame on anyone.

    It's no different than my wife giving up Brad Pitt movies because she feels he wronged Jennifer Aniston. Silly comparison I'll grant you, but same basis.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,706
    Likes (Received)
    720
    Thanks (Received)
    75

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    My wife refuses to watch anything with Mel Gibson in it because of his anti-semitism.
    I've given up caring. I watch it all. Same with sports figures. I'm pretty sure that if I were to look into the background of any of those people I'd find something I disagree with. There personal lives don't matter to me. Are you a good actor/athlete/etc, then I'll watch. Otherwise the only thing I'd do is sit around and read RFD books (assuming there's nothing too dark in his background).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Right about.....HERE
    Posts
    4,357
    Likes (Received)
    319
    Thanks (Received)
    43

    Default Re: Gay+Failure=Discrimination?

    Quote Originally Posted by F4CrewChick View Post
    I didn't at all 'miss your point'...I think you missed mine. I indeed referenced the CNN article and did not attribute the claim of career decline on anything--including the article. I pointed out the difficulties inherent in being in the closet and the pressures it can put on not only a career, but a life. Chely Wright I think does blame the 'country music industry' and its fans to some degree but she speaks about how truly it was her own responsibility to be true to herself but failed to because she believed her career would suffer it she came out as a lesbian.

    Country music fans in this nation are not culturally monolithic, but they do represent a demographic that tends toward social conservatism. Why is it that since her coming out as a lesbian, no country music stars have stepped up in support of her? Country radio doesn't play her music, even the old hits, just like they still rarely play the Dixie Chicks. I listen to country music; I like it but if you listen to terrestrial radio in particular, you can hear the tone and it is conservative; God, Country, the military and apple pie. They rarely stray into any culturally sensitive topics including LGBT rights or issues.

    The topic posed is, "Gay+Failure=Discrimination?" and the answer is a qualified, "yes." Yes because there is a general air of discrimination against GLBT people in this country. Ever heard of ENDA? It's the "Employment Non-Discrimination Act" and it keeps failing despite being offered in virtually every congress since 1994. Almost 20 years of the legislative body of this country saying GLBT people are not worth protecting. Of course we know DADT ended in only September 2011 yet spouses of AD military members do not have the same rights, responsibilities and benefits as their straight counterparts. So to say that the pressures of being LGBT in this culture can and do have negative effects on people would be a no-brainer. To blame all failures of LGBT people on 'society' and its various apparati would be disingenuous and obfuscates personal responsibility.

    I'm pretty sure I get you point; I hope I've made mine.
    There aren't a LOT of GLBT country singers but it is hardly unprecedented... K.D. Land used to be a country singer and Kristen Hall was a founding member of Sugarland....

    Why have no country music stars come out in support of her? Might want to check your facts because Mary Chapin Carpenter, LeAnn Rimes and SHeDAISY have come out publicaly in support of her...She also says several others told her privately that they support her. I don't often listen to regular radio so I will have to defer to your analysis on that but...I definately agree that there isn't much controversial country music these days...used to have "Outlaw Country" but it is all pretty "pop-esque" these days....

    The last, I kind of agree but more with your last sentance than the rest...
    “I say, imagine in your private life, if you decided that I’m not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two—first of all you’re not saving money by not paying your mortgage. You’re just a dead beat. “

    --Barak Obama


    You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not
    --John Lennon

    Lord of the Pings

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •