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    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Revive the Forum

    Someone needs to revive this forum. It once thrived; however, for unknown reasons has died. Perhaps an article in the military times may do it some justice... and/or posting comments in the times like they used to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaLawyer View Post
    Someone needs to revive this forum. It once thrived; however, for unknown reasons has died. Perhaps an article in the military times may do it some justice... and/or posting comments in the times like they used to.

    Too much competition from Facebook and Reddit. I don't do either of those though.

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    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    That makes two of us, FLAPS.

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    Perhaps the reason is this is mainly a forum for military (active duty and retirees) and the Military Times is read/known to them so the subject matter would appear to be of limited interest to non-military civilians. How many people read their branch version of The Military Times. I know when I was active duty most people never read it. As SeaLawyer and Flaps pointed out, people are on other platforms like Facebook and Reddit. The other platforms are better known and utilized more leaving people little time to come to a smaller, less-know platform like this one.

    BTW, like SeaLawyer and Flaps I don't do either of those platforms nor do I do Twitter. If people want to know what's going on in my life or my opinion then they can ask me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    Perhaps the reason is this is mainly a forum for military (active duty and retirees) and the Military Times is read/known to them so the subject matter would appear to be of limited interest to non-military civilians. How many people read their branch version of The Military Times. I know when I was active duty most people never read it. As SeaLawyer and Flaps pointed out, people are on other platforms like Facebook and Reddit. The other platforms are better known and utilized more leaving people little time to come to a smaller, less-know platform like this one.

    BTW, like SeaLawyer and Flaps I don't do either of those platforms nor do I do Twitter. If people want to know what's going on in my life or my opinion then they can ask me.
    I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AF sgt View Post
    I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.
    I've seen a lot of discussions about the Mod wars, I may be wrong (probably am) but I think the publishers/owners had a lot to do with the mods getting heavy handed. More than once I saw it suggested that the forum might go away. Don't remember exactly when (several years ago) a lady whose husband had retired joined the forum and asked a question about a particular area they were thinking of moving. She got bombarded by several posters with remarks that offended her. She complained (maybe even to the publisher) and from that point on I started seeing reminders of the guidelines.

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    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    That's a shame retiredAFcivvy; however, one should know better than to solicit advice from an open forum. Satire is sure to prevail.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AF sgt View Post
    I wonder the same. This seems like a great forum for some interesting discussion. Doing some research, it seems like the "mod wars" started the downfall. It is probably, as mentioned, the availability of other options without the worry of being banned for speaking ones mind. It appears to me that most of the people no longer coming here would fall into the "alt right" category. Probably easier for them to find sites that are far more "confirmation biased" type sites.
    FWIW:

    First there was the "rep wars" which drove off many regular members. Following that, Gannet (who owns the forum) decided they wanted moderators, but not having anyone on staff, recruited 5 people to be moderators; IMO that was a few too many. A couple of the moderators had issues / bones to pick with a couple of members. Moderators did not always agree on what should be done, and a couple of times there was a pretty healthy discussion in the moderator section following an action.

    Some members flat out didn't like the rules that they agreed to when they joined the forum being enforced. A few became very 'hostile' to any posting by a moderator; ironically at least two of these were very cordial and polite when I was on my user account (I stopped bouncing back and forth between accounts a few years ago.)
    These members were advised that the rules / guidelines would be enforced and if they wanted a forum where they could have a more crude, rude, or raw discussion ... places like Reddit may be more to their liking. Over time three of the mods 'retired' and it was just me and UncaRastus.

    We had one user (RobotChicken) who could be funny, could be rude. He went through a couple of temporary bans. One user asked if we could just ignore the swings in behavior and out of line comments since "he may not be in full control of his faculties"; which I interpreted to be a mental health issue. After a series of rude comments to a user, a couple warnings, he was again temporarily banned. It turns out he had a terminal disease and died a couple of days after that ban expired. I caught a lot of heat for that, which I have and will say ... if I had been told enough data to make a better informed decision ... I may have made a different one; but it is what it is.

    We had one user in particular who posted a lot (Tak) and had previously been 'permanently' banned twice and that ban overturned. When he took to doxing a former forum admin, he was put on a short leash. Tak would do things like post something insulting to a mod, then 'soft' delete it so only the mods could see it, then feign ignorance when he was cited for it; to the other users it seemed like he was being picked on because they couldn't see the things he would delete. I talked the other mod and the admin into unbanning him, and he quickly went back to being rude and crude. I exchanged several message with Tak where he was negotiating:

    -asking to have a subsection of the forum that was his to do what he wanted with; he would play by the rules in the other sections but the mods wouldn't go there.
    -asking us to look at his post count as evidence of how valuable he was (many posts / new thread were one word); granted ... he also had a lot of good comments too.

    Eventually he was permanently banned. He started a Facebook page page that seems to have quite the following;he is able to connect a lot of people, but I don't think necessarily thinks things through -- he was the one that publicized the video of the sock puppet reenlistment that got a USAFR MSgt kicked out and a LtCol retired.

    One long time, formerly very logical poster took to discussions of raping my wife and (at the time) 6-year old daughter. When asked to stop he didn't and this made him even more hostile to any posting I made. Eventually after a vulgar tirade, he was banned.

    When the previous admin left, he elevated my privileges to administrative but I have no connection to Gannet; I cannot update the forum software nor change the domain. I am purely functional.

    Long story short, Bottom Line at the Bottom (BLAB): I don't think the mod wars are solely to blame, but definitely contributed to the slow down but you shouldn't forget that some grown adults couldn't abide by some very basic rules; first their behavior drove off many casual users, decided to kick things up a notch with the moderators which got them kicked off. This is not "banned for speaking ones mind" as you put it; but for frankly being an ass; and as much as it is someone's right to be an ass, they can also be banned from a private forum for going too far. Unfortunately the damage to the reputation of the forum was done (I once found a Reddit thread talking about the forum where active military described it as a bunch of retired, mostly Air Force guys bitching about the clouds). Reddit, Facebook and other forms of media are more popular ... I don't think MTF will really revive beyond the small crowd it has.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    FWIW:

    First there was the "rep wars" which drove off many regular members. Following that, Gannet (who owns the forum) decided they wanted moderators, but not having anyone on staff, recruited 5 people to be moderators; IMO that was a few too many. A couple of the moderators had issues / bones to pick with a couple of members. Moderators did not always agree on what should be done, and a couple of times there was a pretty healthy discussion in the moderator section following an action.

    Some members flat out didn't like the rules that they agreed to when they joined the forum being enforced. A few became very 'hostile' to any posting by a moderator; ironically at least two of these were very cordial and polite when I was on my user account (I stopped bouncing back and forth between accounts a few years ago.)
    These members were advised that the rules / guidelines would be enforced and if they wanted a forum where they could have a more crude, rude, or raw discussion ... places like Reddit may be more to their liking. Over time three of the mods 'retired' and it was just me and UncaRastus.

    We had one user (RobotChicken) who could be funny, could be rude. He went through a couple of temporary bans. One user asked if we could just ignore the swings in behavior and out of line comments since "he may not be in full control of his faculties"; which I interpreted to be a mental health issue. After a series of rude comments to a user, a couple warnings, he was again temporarily banned. It turns out he had a terminal disease and died a couple of days after that ban expired. I caught a lot of heat for that, which I have and will say ... if I had been told enough data to make a better informed decision ... I may have made a different one; but it is what it is.

    We had one user in particular who posted a lot (Tak) and had previously been 'permanently' banned twice and that ban overturned. When he took to doxing a former forum admin, he was put on a short leash. Tak would do things like post something insulting to a mod, then 'soft' delete it so only the mods could see it, then feign ignorance when he was cited for it; to the other users it seemed like he was being picked on because they couldn't see the things he would delete. I talked the other mod and the admin into unbanning him, and he quickly went back to being rude and crude. I exchanged several message with Tak where he was negotiating:

    -asking to have a subsection of the forum that was his to do what he wanted with; he would play by the rules in the other sections but the mods wouldn't go there.
    -asking us to look at his post count as evidence of how valuable he was (many posts / new thread were one word); granted ... he also had a lot of good comments too.

    Eventually he was permanently banned. He started a Facebook page page that seems to have quite the following;he is able to connect a lot of people, but I don't think necessarily thinks things through -- he was the one that publicized the video of the sock puppet reenlistment that got a USAFR MSgt kicked out and a LtCol retired.

    One long time, formerly very logical poster took to discussions of raping my wife and (at the time) 6-year old daughter. When asked to stop he didn't and this made him even more hostile to any posting I made. Eventually after a vulgar tirade, he was banned.

    When the previous admin left, he elevated my privileges to administrative but I have no connection to Gannet; I cannot update the forum software nor change the domain. I am purely functional.

    Long story short, Bottom Line at the Bottom (BLAB): I don't think the mod wars are solely to blame, but definitely contributed to the slow down but you shouldn't forget that some grown adults couldn't abide by some very basic rules; first their behavior drove off many casual users, decided to kick things up a notch with the moderators which got them kicked off. This is not "banned for speaking ones mind" as you put it; but for frankly being an ass; and as much as it is someone's right to be an ass, they can also be banned from a private forum for going too far. Unfortunately the damage to the reputation of the forum was done (I once found a Reddit thread talking about the forum where active military described it as a bunch of retired, mostly Air Force guys bitching about the clouds). Reddit, Facebook and other forms of media are more popular ... I don't think MTF will really revive beyond the small crowd it has.

    The 'rep' system definitely didn't help. TAK (and perhaps others) would purposely vote down a comment with the intention of turning someone's positive rep meter RED. He and I ended up attacking either other's rep meters, then posting negative comments in protest of the other person's actions. This definitely got out of hand, resulting in my own temporary banning several times. It's been a while, but when I first joined in 2007 there were lots of participants and interesting discussions. This all changed when the rep system was introduced and arguments/attacking intensified. The forum never recovered after that, in my opinion. As for TAK, I've been visiting his Facebook "Air Force Amn/NCO/SNCO" site in off-line mode (I quit FB) and noticed that he was basically booted or otherwise turned over control of his page after posting (after the sock puppet thing) a disparaging and untrue comment/photo of an active CMSgt, who then (rightfully) threatened legal action. It's sometime after this incident that TAK relinquished control of his page. As for the man himself, he's actually made a lot of positive impact with his page/articles, etc. Unfortunately, all of this has been overwhelmingly overshadowed by several of his high-profile mistakes.
    Last edited by FLAPS; 04-13-2019 at 01:47 PM.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    The 'rep' system definitely didn't help. TAK (and perhaps others) would purposely vote down a comment with the intention of turning someone's positive rep meter RED. He and I ended up attacking either other's rep meters, then posting negative comments in protest of the other person's actions. This definitely got out of hand, resulting in my own temporary banning several times. It's been a while, but when I first joined in 2007 there were lots of participants and interesting discussions. This all changed when the rep system was introduced and arguments/attacking intensified. The forum never recovered after that, in my opinion. As for TAK, I've been visiting his Facebook "Air Force Amn/NCO/SNCO" site in off-line mode (I quit FB) and noticed that he was basically booted or otherwise turned over control of his page after posting (after the sock puppet thing) a disparaging and untrue comment/photo of an active CMSgt, who then (rightfully) threatened legal action. It's sometime after this incident that TAK relinquished control of his page. As for the man himself, he's actually made a lot of positive impact with his page/articles, etc. Unfortunately, all of this has been overwhelmingly overshadowed by several of his high-profile mistakes.
    I had heard about the possible lawsuit via RUMINT; a random message making an allegation that turned out to be false. The CMSGT (retired I think) called it out directly and the CMSGT's wife runs a family counseling business and there was potential damage to her reputation / business.

    Again, the argument of "look how many likes (or on Facebook: shares) I get / got" doesn't mean something is / was a good idea and the lack of judgement / impulse control was why despite his VERY high level of activity he was not asked to be a moderator ... which did rub him the wrong way.

    I do hope the lawsuit doesn't get filed, based on what I had heard, he would likely be liable since the guy was not a public figure and there wasn't really any vetting / research before pushing the rumor to 300k+ people.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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