Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 51 to 58 of 58

Thread: Air Force does away with promotion test for senior NCOs

  1. #51
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    The SKT test tells you what a person knows
    Acually, it tells you what a person can recall. Many people can't tell you, a week after testing, what they read or remember.

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    248
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    The SKT test tells you what a person knows, not how well they can or wjill do the job. I found it isn't the intelligence of the person to work hard but their motivation. Like you, I've seen people proudly doing the bare minimum and expecting to be promoted. One person, a TSgt, stated to the rest of us SSgts the reason he has the smallest desk is because you can put much work on it. His mistake was the flight superintendent overheard him say this and brought out a bunch of computer listings and gave him extra work. I'd rather work with someone who was motivated but lacking book knowledge than someone with book knowledge and unmotivitated.



    When I was in, the PT test was a joke. Running, walking, or doing the bike test didn't mean I was fit. What I learned, by experience, was whether people could work in the field for a couple of hours without taking a break was a better indication of fitness and than anything else. I agree, officers and SNCOs need to take the test if for nothing else to demonstrate to NCO and junior enlisted the need to be able to perform physical activities applies to everyone.
    This issue came up on this forum several years back. I think I got some disagreement on it, but one reason the AF got serious about PT was that other services were complaining that in certain situations the AF personal weren't keeping up.

  3. #53
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    This issue came up on this forum several years back. I think I got some disagreement on it, but one reason the AF got serious about PT was that other services were complaining that in certain situations the AF personal weren't keeping up.
    Right. Because instead of recruiting more Soldiers, they DOD decided it was a smart idea to start the ILO (in lieu of) tasking, sticking untrained, unskilled Airmen in the field with the Army. Of course the Airmen weren't going to keep up. The PT test didn't/doesn't change that, but it gave some General somewhere the opportunity to feel good about himself by pretending that the Air Force was capable of performing at the physical level of people who train every single day to perform at those levels. Hell, it was even called "fit to fight". Joke of all jokes.

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    248
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AF sgt View Post
    Right. Because instead of recruiting more Soldiers, they DOD decided it was a smart idea to start the ILO (in lieu of) tasking, sticking untrained, unskilled Airmen in the field with the Army. Of course the Airmen weren't going to keep up. The PT test didn't/doesn't change that, but it gave some General somewhere the opportunity to feel good about himself by pretending that the Air Force was capable of performing at the physical level of people who train every single day to perform at those levels. Hell, it was even called "fit to fight". Joke of all jokes.
    Thanks for remembering that!

  5. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    Thanks for remembering that!
    Yeah, I was one of those who got screwed over by it. In the mean time, the shop back at the base suffers because now they are 2 guys short in an 8 man shop. It just made no sense. What it did was show everyone that got shorthanded back at main base that the job they've been preached to is so important really isn't that important at all, because now it's OK if all the work doesn't get done. It's like telling your kid "You really need to get your room cleaned up before you do anything else but, if you run out of time, meh! No biggy!"

  6. #56
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,562
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AF sgt View Post
    Right. Because instead of recruiting more Soldiers, they DOD decided it was a smart idea to start the ILO (in lieu of) tasking, sticking untrained, unskilled Airmen in the field with the Army. Of course the Airmen weren't going to keep up. The PT test didn't/doesn't change that, but it gave some General somewhere the opportunity to feel good about himself by pretending that the Air Force was capable of performing at the physical level of people who train every single day to perform at those levels. Hell, it was even called "fit to fight". Joke of all jokes.
    The PT program has always been about image.

    All the anecdotal stories about being able to keep up in the AOR or decreasing health care costs, etc. are just rationalizations, the real reason is we just don't like seeing fat people in uniform.
    The Voice of Reason

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    188
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    The PT program has always been about image.

    All the anecdotal stories about being able to keep up in the AOR or decreasing health care costs, etc. are just rationalizations, the real reason is we just don't like seeing fat people in uniform.

    You're right that it's about image. It's about the image the senior officers in the Air Force felt the senior officers in the Army and Marines had of Airmen.

    It's almost like the guy who's offended because he thinks that others might be offended. There's only an issue because someone makes it an issue.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,882
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    yet another thing that the USAF had gotten right before... and has now F'd up.........

    Paul Airey on WAPS (from a 1981 interview)...

    https://static.dma.mil/usaf/cmsaf50/Airey.html

    " the end result was they came out with a weighted Airman promotion system [WAPS], which today is still in effect and is by far the fairest, best, most equitable promotion system of any of the armed forces for the enlisted men. It was a year or two ago, and I was over in the House, and there is a man by the name of John Ford. He is a counselor to the House Armed Forces Committee. I said, “Mr. Ford, you remember how L. Mendel Rivers was getting 15,000 to 20,000 letters a year on enlisted promotions?” He said, “I sure do, Paul.” I said, “How many are you getting now from Air Force enlisted people?” He said, “We don’t get half dozen or so a year.” Now this is success that the Airman can see. In other words, the biggest problem I faced was the promotion problem. The Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force job remains the same. Problems change. This is one problem none of them have had to face."
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 02-12-2019 at 02:36 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •