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    Furlough

    Was wondering if/how any of you are affected. Forced to work right now with no pay, for now? Sent home, getting a "free vacation"? Or, if you're active, are the civvies in your shop affected?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AF sgt View Post
    Was wondering if/how any of you are affected. Forced to work right now with no pay, for now? Sent home, getting a "free vacation"? Or, if you're active, are the civvies in your shop affected?
    Not me, but I talked to a civ af guy and he said nobody in DoD was furloughed due to the fiscal budget that was already passed. If the Pelosi shutdown (which I'm now convinced of after yesterday's Trump compromise) continues through Sep, then DoD furloughs will begin.

    Speaking of the shutdown in general, I think it's pretty scary stuff for the majority of folks who really can't sustain themselves beyond a couple of missed pay checks. Sad thing is, progressives want MORE dependency on the gov (free income, schooling, healthcare). I guess when you're a politician with total power over the lives of the voter base (vote for us or lose everything [free stuff]), then making the voters 100% dependent is a great strategy.
    Last edited by FLAPS; 01-20-2019 at 12:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Not me, but I talked to a civ af guy and he said nobody in DoD was furloughed due to the fiscal budget that was already passed. If the Pelosi shutdown (which I'm now convinced of after yesterday's Trump compromise) continues through Sep, then DoD furloughs will begin.

    Speaking of the shutdown in general, I think it's pretty scary stuff for the majority of folks who really can't sustain themselves beyond a couple of missed pay checks. Sad thing is, progressives want MORE dependency on the gov (free income, schooling, healthcare). I guess when you're a politician with total power over the lives of the voter base (vote for us or lose everything [free stuff]), then making the voters 100% dependent is a great strategy.
    It is pretty sad that we (the royal "we") can't figure this out / compromise and we have people who are "vital to continued operations" that have to work, and are not currently getting paid. Its great and all that we have now approved back pay, but in the interim those people are getting pretty screwed. Yes, everyone should have emergency savings ... not everyone does, some people may have just blown through them for an ... emergency ... etc. Some furloughed workers have gone out to find temporary work, some can't because their agency etc. needs them to work ... but just isn't paying them until the bills are approved.

    Come April / May, Congress is scheduled to start working on the FY20 bills, all will have to be redone or current / pending bills extended if not approved / signed by 01 Oct.

    DOD has funding through the rest of the FY19 (defense bill), currently 5 of 12 funding bills have passed and been signed into law, but those 5 make up most of the gov't (~80% of federal workers).

    Bills passed:

    -Military Construction and Veterans Affairs
    -Energy and Water
    -Legislative Branch
    -Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education
    Defense

    Not passed:

    -Agriculture;
    -Commerce, Justice, and Science
    -Financial Services
    -Homeland Security
    -Interior and Environment
    -State and Foreign Operations
    -Transportation and Housing and Urban Development
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    It is pretty sad that we (the royal "we") can't figure this out / compromise and we have people who are "vital to continued operations" that have to work, and are not currently getting paid. Its great and all that we have now approved back pay, but in the interim those people are getting pretty screwed. Yes, everyone should have emergency savings ... not everyone does, some people may have just blown through them for an ... emergency ... etc. Some furloughed workers have gone out to find temporary work, some can't because their agency etc. needs them to work ... but just isn't paying them until the bills are approved.

    Come April / May, Congress is scheduled to start working on the FY20 bills, all will have to be redone or current / pending bills extended if not approved / signed by 01 Oct.

    DOD has funding through the rest of the FY19 (defense bill), currently 5 of 12 funding bills have passed and been signed into law, but those 5 make up most of the gov't (~80% of federal workers).

    Bills passed:

    -Military Construction and Veterans Affairs
    -Energy and Water
    -Legislative Branch
    -Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education
    Defense

    Not passed:

    -Agriculture;
    -Commerce, Justice, and Science
    -Financial Services
    -Homeland Security
    -Interior and Environment
    -State and Foreign Operations
    -Transportation and Housing and Urban Development

    Yep, everyone should have an emergency savings, but I think for most people it's unrealistic to expect them to have more than a month or two...if that. Once depleted, they'll dip into IRAs (if they have any), rack up credit card debt/payday loans and/or default on current loans altogether. I'm trying to imagine myself being forced to work without pay. At some point I would have no choice but to quit that job to look for other work.

    Surely a COMPROMISE can be found to avoid putting the workforce through these scenarios? And I'm sorry, but compromise doesn't mean "just open up gov and we 'promise' to talk about border security later." If Pelosi has no intentions on funding it now, then what are the chances it happens when Trump has even less leverage than he has now? As far as I'm concerned, a promise from Congress to fix anything at a later date equates to a promise to never take action in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS View Post
    Surely a COMPROMISE can be found to avoid putting the workforce through these scenarios? And I'm sorry, but compromise doesn't mean "just open up gov and we 'promise' to talk about border security later." If Pelosi has no intentions on funding it now, then what are the chances it happens when Trump has even less leverage than he has now? As far as I'm concerned, a promise from Congress to fix anything at a later date equates to a promise to never take action in the future.
    Concur, comprise doesn't mean open the gov't and we will figure this out. Right now, the only leverage POTUS has is his signature on a funding bill; his support on this in Congress and with the public is falling.

    I do think though, at some point the capitulation option has to be considered (by someone) as ending the shutdown just becomes necessary (for one of the 'sides'), people will only be able to put up with a certain amount of financial instability / uncertainty and the ripple effects in the economy (which is currently strong). There are already lawsuits against the gov't for forcing workers to work without pay. POTUS has said this could go on for months, but what happens when Air Traffic Controller (an already hard to fill and undermanned necessity) start resigning to find other work to make ends meet etc. etc. etc.?

    The shutdown is a lot less about the border (one way or the other) and certainly not about $5.7B (drop in the bucket of Federal spending), it is posturing for 2020. One of the main points of the 2016 DJT campaign was the wall, it hasn't happened ... he has had some policy successes, some policy failures & a wall is a boost to the "this is what I did in the last 3 years" narrative, Democrats are trying to keep that from happening.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    his support on this in Congress and with the public is falling.
    Support is falling with the public... According to who?

    Outside of the beltway swamp, most people don't give 2 shits about this "shutdown". All it does is proove, to them, that they can do without 20% of .gov

    The government needs a RIF & it should start with TSA.

    If you're non mission in the private sector, then you're fired.

    POTUS should keep this thing shutdown till after he wins in 2020
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-20-2019 at 05:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Support is falling with the public... According to who?
    Check the news, nearly any; am sure you can find some that totally support POTUS on this, some that vilify him for it. If you are only paying attention to sites that agree with you, you may have confirmation bias; be objective. RealClearPolitics is a good aggregation of polling data if you would like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Outside of the beltway swamp, most people don't give 2 shits about this "shutdown". All it does is proove, to them, that they can do without 20% of .gov
    It isn't quite impacting folks that are 3 degrees etc. separated from the gov't yet. But again, people who are working without getting paid makes for bad news, Coast Guardsmen working without getting paid make bad news, clips of DJT saying that BHO as POTUS holds the majority of blame for those shutdowns ... makes bad news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The government needs a RIF & it should start with TSA.

    If you're non mission in the private sector, then you're fired.
    No disagreement we need to reduce the government. This isn't the way to do that. I am no fan of big government ... but am also no fan just throwing a wrench in the gears and seeing what happens ... which seems to be what happened ... The Administration has already admitted the economic impact is more than double what they thought it would be.

    ATCs are not TSA either, they work for the FAA. But to your point about mission and non mission essential ... mission essential personnel are working and not getting paid. That's not right. And non-mission essential isn't necessarily "not needed", just not needed in an emergency ... like during a snow storm we close things like admin, finance, most of transport but still need the watch centers, fire & emergency folks ... I think you are lumping all non-essentials into one big category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    POTUS should keep this thing shutdown till after he wins in 2020
    If it stays shutdown too long, I think it seals a Democrat beating him ... which would be ironic for those saying leave it shut down for as long as it takes.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    be objective. RealClearPolitics is a good aggregation of polling data if you would like.
    I don't put much credence in polls...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    mission essential personnel are working and not getting paid. That's not right.
    What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    If it stays shutdown too long, I think it seals a Democrat beating him ....
    Maybe. Maybe Not....Republicans took back the Senate after the 2013 shutdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    I don't put much credence in polls...
    We shouldn't ... they can be deceptive (2016). I do think there is something to them in aggregate, but I think ignoring outright people's perception on the shutdown is working with blinders. I am not talking about hard progressives or DJT supporters, but looking at swing voters who could vote either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.
    Concur. But, it is hard to say that it is right to conscript people into working (now for a month), and not paying them ... over a border wall. DJT was going to accept the funding packages without the border wall funding, then got bashed for a news cycle and changed his mind. This isn't about a wall or border security, it is about not 'losing', politics & elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Maybe. Maybe Not....Republicans took back the Senate after the 2013 shutdown.
    They did, they control the Senate now (barely) ... if this goes on and angst / anger over the current shutdown carries into 2020 ... I think we will see a D president, continued D control of the House ... and possibly a D Senate ... which isn't something I want.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    They did, they control the Senate now (barely) ... if this goes on and angst / anger over the current shutdown carries into 2020 ... I think we will see a D president, continued D control of the House ... and possibly a D Senate ... which isn't something I want.
    Equally as worrisome is the prospect of more red states turning blue. Florida, for example, was so damn close to electing a DEM. Not only would DEM power transform their own states (at different rates) into bankrupt cesspools of poverty, but together they'll have power to tell any conservative SCOTUS, "eff you, we're changing/dismantling the Constitution." With the overwhelmingly left-leaning media and public school systems, we are headed in this direction....wall shutdown or not.

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