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Thread: Trump once again fails on his promises

  1. #21
    Senior Member meatbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I took a similar oath to yours, yes I support the law and the Constitution, which is why I think a legislative fix (which would be law) is the best route. We are talking about people who grew up (at least in part) here in the US. They didn't come here of their own free will; they were brought here (yes, illegally) by a parent or guardian. Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport? Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?
    You better watch it with that logic talk, son. We don't appreciate that shit around here.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport?
    I'd be happy if they self deported.. IMO those who DO should be given preferential treatment, once they've say served some time back home, for applying to Legally come here. Those we have to find and kick out, should have to go to the back of any line..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?
    No, but if/when i get caught breaking the law, i don't go protesting, and Demanding i be 'exempted' from the repercussions of breaking it like most of these illegal aliens seem to be doing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    morally (IMO) it is wrong to take someone who as a child was brought to this country by their parents, has grown up here etc. and now throw them out.
    There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.

    The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Also, reading that the average education level completed and employment status for DACA beneficiaries is above that of the general US population
    The average DACA beneficiary makes between $10 and $17 an hour (Depending on which study you look at). IOW they’re working poor.

    & every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    they also pay taxes
    So what? It cost far more to educate, house and provide medical care for them, than they pay in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport?
    This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of horseshit.

    They’re adults now. They should apply for citizenship and get in line…. While they’re waiting, these overachievers can take all the training and education, that we gave them (for free) and get to work making their country of origin great again.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.

    The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.
    And where were all the 'bleeding heart' and their morals when Kathlie Steinbeck was killed by an Illegal alien who had been deported over a dozen times before, and was hiding out in a sanctuary city? OR the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER US citizens who have had their families ripped apart by the death of one of their kin, cause of all these illegal aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    & every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.
    And in some cases, those 'subsidized billets' in schools are given GREATER weight in admissions than an 'equally qualified' US Citizen are, just so they can 'appear to be multicultural'..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of horseshit.
    I've never understood how someone could believe that "My parents brought me in, but never told me i was illegally here" Bull either..

  5. #25
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.
    There was nothing moral about them being brought here illegally & without their consent (can a minor consent to their parents moving? Not in the US.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.
    I would agree. Want to fix our immigration policy issues is not racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The average DACA beneficiary makes between $10 and $17 an hour (Depending on which study you look at). IOW they’re working poor.
    We have likely looked at different studies. The one I read excerpts from did not include DACA beneficiaries who are still minors - who tend to work either minimum wage or just above minimum wage jobs, much like most American minors who are in the workforce. Factoring out DACA beneficiaries who are still under 18 got to the numbers I was citing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    & every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.
    Agree with you in concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    So what? It cost far more to educate, house and provide medical care for them, than they pay in.
    . Correct, the same could be said for most of the US population. The point s, they are contributing .... And in many cases much more than most of our welfare recipients.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of Horseshit.
    I agree. I think by the time they are older they know, there is probably that age in childhood where the concept is beyond them. The point I am making is that as kids, they basically went where their parents moved to; same as you and I likely did as kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    They’re adults now. They should apply for citizenship and get in line…. While they’re waiting, these overachievers can take all the training and education, that we gave them (for free) and get to work making their country of origin great again.
    They are adults. My issue is that we are essentially holding them accountable for the ills of their parents who brought them here and our system that for decades has failed to address the loopholes and poor policy that got us here. We ... The big We need to hold our legislators to the fire which as I said is one thing POTUS has gotten right. He is giving them time to fix the laws. He doesn't think deporting them is a good idea either ... Otherwise there would have been no 6-month deferment for Congress to get something done and he would have ordered DHS and ICE to round them up and ship them off since as a result of them registering we know where the DACA beneficiaries live, work and go to school.

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    And where were all the 'bleeding heart' and their morals when Kathlie Steinbeck was killed by an Illegal alien who had been deported over a dozen times before, and was hiding out in a sanctuary city? OR the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER US citizens who have had their families ripped apart by the death of one of their kin, cause of all these illegal aliens?
    Concur, what happened to her was tragic and unnecessary. The issues that allowed her killer to get back into & remain in the country are not fixed by deporting DACA beneficiaries. Her killer would have never been eligible for DACA. Large, comprehensive immigration reform is needed.

    QUOTE=garhkal;370882]And in some cases, those 'subsidized billets' in schools are given GREATER weight in admissions than an 'equally qualified' US Citizen are, just so they can 'appear to be multicultural'..[/quote]

    Agree here too, I am not a fan of affirmative action / the bigotry of low expectations. Nor am I a fan of the concept that diversity is where people look different but think the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    I've never understood how someone could believe that "My parents brought me in, but never told me i was illegally here" Bull either..
    I don't think anyone is saying that DACA beneficiaries are unaware of their immigration status, at least not eventually. As a kid, this concept is probably something that most are unaware of. I would think by the time a child was a teenager they either have been told or figure it out. That said, it doesn't answer the question of what we should expect a 12, 13 or 14 etc. year old kid to do when they do figure it out. They very likely lack the maturity or resources to go out on their own and return to their native country if their parents aren't going to go with them. We fall right back into "what would you do if you were 13?" Anyone saying they would self deport at that age is almost certainly full of it.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    There was nothing moral about them being brought here illegally & without their consent
    Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    can a minor consent to their parents moving? Not in the US.
    And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    We fall right back into "what would you do if you were 13?" Anyone saying they would self deport at that age is almost certainly full of it.
    The majority of them are now over the age of 25.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 09-24-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  7. #27
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.
    I don't disagree. I think rather than looking at this as purely black and white though ... the circumstances as to why the DACA beneficiaries are here is important and the main factor I have in thinking we should find a way to provide them a legal status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.
    Which doesn't answer the issue of what you expect the child to do when their parent or guardian says "we're moving". My daughter was 3 1/2 when we adopted her. She came to the US (legally) literally kicking and screaming at various times; she didn't get a vote on whether or not she wanted to come here. If she was being brought here illegally, she still wouldn't have has input with those bringing her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The majority of them are now over the age of 25.
    True. But I don't think expecting them to self deport when they hit 18, 21 or another age is right. Again, if you catch yourself speeding do you turn yourself in? They have lived here for years, our laws allow them to be educated here regardless of immigration status, this is their home and they are being productive ... this is an entirely different category of individual than the vast majority of illegal aliens (who should be kicked out of the country).
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  8. #28
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.
    I don't disagree. I think rather than looking at this as purely black and white though ... the circumstances as to why the DACA beneficiaries are here is important and the main factor I have in thinking we should find a way to provide them a legal status.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.
    Which doesn't answer the issue of what you expect the child to do when their parent or guardian says "we're moving". My daughter was 3 1/2 when we adopted her. She came to the US (legally) literally kicking and screaming at various times; she didn't get a vote on whether or not she wanted to come here. If she was being brought here illegally, she still wouldn't have had input with those bringing her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The majority of them are now over the age of 25.
    True. But I don't think expecting them to self deport when they hit 18, 21 or another age is right. Again, if you catch yourself speeding do you turn yourself in? They have lived here for years, our laws allow them to be educated here regardless of immigration status, this is their home and they are being productive ... this is an entirely different category of individual than the vast majority of illegal aliens (who should be kicked out of the country).
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  9. #29
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Of note: Pretty great that while there is some disagreement, the debate is civil. 'Merica
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Of note: Pretty great that while there is some disagreement, the debate is civil. 'Merica
    That is true.. WE do have that going for us.. Unlike all the unpatriotic football (and now NBA/MLB hacks)..

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