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Thread: Charlottesville VA

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Charlottesville VA

    So here is how I see it. First of all, do not construe any this as defending Nazis. Tiki or otherwise. I hate Nazis.

    But ... in this case the Stupid Fucking Nazis (SFNs) still have the right of peaceful assembly. Because of the 1st Amendment. Hate speech short of incitement is still protected under the 1st Amendment, a unanimous ruling from the Supreme Court earlier this year stated that.

    So the SFNs want to have their stupid rally. That could have gone one of two ways:

    Case 1 is they had their stupid rally and stood around looking like idiots waving the rebel flag and blaming the African Americans and Jews for all their problems or whatever stupid crap the SFNs think. They get to do Case 1 because of that 1st Amendment. Hate speech IS indeed free speech as much as some might not like it.

    Case 2 starts off like Case 1 except they start attacking people and burning buildings or some other stupid shit. In Case 2, the cops step in and if that does not work the National Guard has their back, and Case 2 is terminated. Law enforcement handles it, or the Guard handles it in a Title 32 capacity. This is not the job of some vigilante mob who answers to no one.

    But in this case AntiFa hears about the SFN rally and plans to show up. AntiFa does not show up to "counter-protest," they show up to cause anarchy and beat some ass. That thing at UC Berkley when they could not handle the Gay Jewish guy giving a speech so they lit the place on fire? That was them. They show up loaded for bear. The SFNs know AntiFa will show up loaded for bear, so they show up loaded for bear as well. Then for whatever reason the cops stood off to the side and let these idiots go at it and it spiraled out of control.

    Now, would the SFNs have gone Case 1 or Case 2 absent AntiFa? Well I guess we will never know because AntiFa decided to employ "mob justice" to deny the SFNs of their Constitutional right to assemble. Now, people rationalize that by saying that the SFNs don't have rights, and we have even heard some politicians and campus administrators say lately that "hate speech is not free speech" but that is just not true. As backwards-ass pieces of shit as the SFNs are, they still have rights, and if you want to beat them up just for existing then you are outside the laws of this nation.

    From the relevant unanimous Supreme Court decision: "Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground is hateful; but the proudest boast of our free speech jurisprudence is that we protect the freedom to express “the thought that we hate.” . . . A law that can be directed against speech found offensive to some portion of the public can be turned against minority and dissenting views to the detriment of all. The First Amendment does not entrust that power to the government’s benevolence. Instead, our reliance must be on the substantial safeguards of free and open discussion in a democratic society."

    Counter-protest? Sure. In a civilized manner. See Dr. King's writings on the just and effective ways to protest. This mob justice crap "undoes" civil rights.

    Well one might argue that AntiFa is only there to take care of the real threats to society like the SFNs. The issue is who gets to decide the target of the mob violence and their just cause? This week it is the SFNs. What if the Amish decide they are going to shun gay Amish folks, and the mob decides it is high time for a good old Amish barn burning? Who holds the keys to their mob justice? Who enables some mob of angry Americans to cancel the Constitutional rights of other Americans?

    Consider this: In April of 2017 the 82nd Avenue of Roses Parade in Portland was canceled because AntiFa/BlacBlock threatened that if there were any Republican groups in the parade, then AntiFa would show up to drag them out of the parade and beat the shit out of them. Not SFNs, just any Republicans.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    What I really think is funny is how those on the right want to portray themselves as being "tough" and having all of this "machismo" and "bravado." And they just LOVE to protray those on the left as "pussies," "snowflakes," and other emasculating terms. Remember the "Wall of Meat" during Trump's inauguration? Right wingers LOVE to display machismo. But they forget that when they do so, they're issuing a challenge. And when you issue a challege, you can expect someone to take you up on it.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 08-16-2017 at 04:34 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    In this case at least, the ones doing the provoking (SFN's) were looking for / expecting a response; they got what they wanted. In Charlottesville, (based on what I have seen) it looks like the SFN's and counter-protesters each achieved various tactical victories (ass beatings), strategically it unifies opposition to the SFN's ... but it does get them a lot of attention that they were not getting (bad attention is still attention).

    The comforting thing here is that SFN's are outnumbered 1000's : 1 in numbers, maybe not at individual rallies etc. but their ideology is not a majority, and far from popular.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    In this case at least, the ones doing the provoking (SFN's) were looking for / expecting a response; they got what they wanted.
    Or maybe not. I'm under the impression that they really think that others are intimidated by them.

    In Charlottesville, (based on what I have seen) it looks like the SFN's and counter-protesters each achieved various tactical victories (ass beatings), strategically it unifies opposition to the SFN's ... but it does get them a lot of attention that they were not getting (bad attention is still attention).
    I'm going to be honest with you: in general, I perceive disdain for AntiFa as support for the groups that AntiFa opposes. And there's already alot of this going on, and this has been the case since before the C-Ville incident.

    The comforting thing here is that SFN's are outnumbered 1000's : 1 in numbers, maybe not at individual rallies etc. but their ideology is not a majority, and far from popular.
    I'm not sure about that. Sure, if we only discussed card-carrying Neo Nazi's, I'd agree. But here's what I think is really happening: look at the shit that Rainmaker says on this board. He's not the only person here who holds those beliefs. WJ5 and garhkal will "like" and "thank" his posts, and will even come out and defend them... basically, they'll do everything short of actually posting similar beliefs themselves. I guess you can call it "strategic distancing" (assuming that there isn't already an existing term). What percentage of conservatives "strategically distance" themselves from hate groups, while still holding their beliefs? I don't know, but I bet it's a large one. Trump exhibited an example of this by condemning both groups in C-Ville as being equally in the wrong.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 08-17-2017 at 01:42 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    So here is how I see it. First of all, do not construe any this as defending Nazis. Tiki or otherwise. I hate Nazis.
    You weaken the logical point, that follows, by qualifying it with this statement. Your anti- white "diversity" programming is strong...

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post






    I guess you can call it "strategic distancing" (assuming that there isn't already an existing term).
    I'm sure a term already exists. Why don't you check with your local PC police over in "H.R." (which only exists to protect businesses against frivolous discrimination lawsuits ,from poor performers, who otherwise couldn't hold a decent job)

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    You weaken the logical point, that follows, by qualifying it with this statement. Your anti- white "diversity" programming is strong...
    nah ... I just am not a fan of people who advocate genocide.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    nah ... I just am not a fan of people who advocate genocide.
    Of course, anyone who gathers to show pride in rich, white culture and history must be an advocate of genocide.

    In case you haven't noticed it's not "white nationalists" who are rioting, destroying public and private property, blocking public freeways, and demand colleges be turned into Marxist indoctrination centers, we're they erase western civilization, culture and history from the curriculum.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    I'm sure a term already exists. Why don't you check with your local PC police over in "H.R." (which only exists to protect businesses against frivolous discrimination lawsuits ,from poor performers, who otherwise couldn't hold a decent job)
    If such a concept had absolutely anything to do with HR, I'd already know of an existing term: I work in HR. Sounds to me like you've been on the receiving end of some HR justice. And that should come at absolutely zero surprise to anyone.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Or maybe not. I'm under the impression that they really think that others are intimidated by them.
    The SFN's fully expected a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I'm going to be honest with you: in general, I perceive disdain for AntiFa as support for the groups that AntiFa opposes. And there's already alot of this going on, and this has been the case since before the C-Ville incident.
    I just don't think it is that black and white (pun?) or binary. I don't like AntiFa's tactics, doesn't mean I am or support fascists.

    i.e.: I have pets, I love my pets. I love animals in general ... some with a side of potatoes and gravy. I don't support PETA. I don't like their tactics or methodology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I'm not sure about that. Sure, if we only discussed card-carrying Neo Nazi's, I'd agree. But here's what I think is really happening: look at the shit that Rainmaker says on this board. He's not the only person here who holds those beliefs. WJ5 and garhkal will "like" and "thank" his posts, and will even come out and defend them... basically, they'll do everything short of actually posting similar beliefs themselves. I guess you can call it "strategic distancing" (assuming that there isn't already an existing term). What percentage of conservatives "strategically distance" themselves from hate groups, while still holding their beliefs? I don't know, but I bet it's a large one. Trump exhibited an example of this by condemning both groups in C-Ville as being equally in the wrong.
    A term I have heard used is "the racist next door"; which isn't isolated to whites. I think you are correct on strategic distancing ... and would also say that is not isolated to whites or conservatives either.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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