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Thread: Nude Photo Scandal

  1. #11
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Here's a sightly different take. IMO, the blogger raises a few obvious (but verboten) questions.

    http://grimbeorn.blogspot.com/2017/0...k-on-this.html

    Going To Have To Work On This

    The USMC is having a bit of a scandal right now, over the existence of a Facebook group made up of Marines and former Marines that shared nude pictures of female Marines.

    Oddly enough, it's the less-revealing images that are the greater concern.

    In one instance, a woman corporal in uniform was followed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina by a fellow Marine, who surreptitiously photographed her as she picked up her gear. Those photographs were posted online in the Facebook group “Marines United,” which has nearly 30,000 followers, drawing dozens of obscene comments.

    That woman, in her full dress, was victimized by being stalked -- and perhaps, again, by the commentary on her desirability. (I say 'perhaps' because it's unclear. Would she have been victimized if the comments had not been made public? Her identity is not public, so perhaps she doesn't even know herself what was said about her. Is she a victim of 'harassment' if she's suffered no mental harm? Maybe -- perhaps she could be victimized by being in a culture that was hostile to her even if she was completely unaware that it was hostile to her. On the other hand, a group of anonymous posters on Facebook is not her chain of command, so perhaps this group doesn't rise to the level of 'a hostile work environment.' I leave all that to others to sort out.)

    The stalking is genuinely improper. On the other hand, what about this?

    Many images appear to have originated from the consensual, but private, exchange of racy images, some clearly taken by the women themselves.
    Here, the women consented to being photographed -- photographed themselves, even -- but not to having the images shared in a creeper database of which they knew nothing.

    So... what exactly do you do about that? Presumably the woman has a right to take a photo of herself naked if she wants to, even though she's a Marine. She has a right to share it, arguably, even though she's a Marine (indeed, she's certainly not in uniform). So what do we say about the unauthorized sharing? Is it a copyright violation?

    If you're sharing nude photos of yourself with other members of the Marine Corps -- not your spouse, I presume -- aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order that this represents? If you allow yourself to be videoed having sex by other members of your unit, aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order?

    No, of course not. These are all "victims," and the PAO has put out a 10 page document in part devoted to explaining their rights under the law.

    Meanwhile, the news stories about this are taking pains to paint this as a USMC failure, claiming that the Corps' hostility to the idea of integrating women into the combat arms is responsible for this whole incident. A gentle suggestion: is it worth considering that the leadership's hostility to the idea was built around the understanding that a collapse of good order and discipline such as this was highly likely? Doesn't this scandal prove the leadership's concerns about what this would do to their organization to have been fairly sound?
    Good points.

    The stalking is really concerning, creepy etc. As far as the consensual images that were privately shared, the UCMJ is very clear:

    10 U.S. Code § 920c - Art. 120c. Other sexual misconduct

    (a)Indecent Viewing, Visual Recording, or Broadcasting.—Any person subject to this chapter who, without legal justification or lawful authorization—
    (1) knowingly and wrongfully views the private area of another person, without that other person’s consent and under circumstances in which that other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy;

    (2) knowingly photographs, videotapes, films, or records by any means the private area of another person, without that other person’s consent and under circumstances in which that other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; or

    (3) knowingly broadcasts or distributes any such recording that the person knew or reasonably should have known was made under the circumstances proscribed in paragraphs (1) and (2);
    is guilty of an offense under this section and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
    A female taking or allowing the photo to be taken by her partner is not in violation of Art 120c, the partner is not in violation for possessing it. It is a violation for the partner to violate that "reasonable expectation of privacy" and further share that photo.

    I don't think the subject of the photo is responsible (partially or not) for a collapse of good order & discipline as the photo was private, the individual who shares that photo is responsible. In our private lives there are likely moments that if captured in a photo / video would be embarrassing and could cause a breakdown of good order & discipline. It is not harming the discipline of your unit to have these moments in your life, it does when someone broadcasts them out.

    As far as the closing point: The Marine Corps should have seen this coming when integrating women into combat arms. While the problem is large, it is not the entire or majority of the Marine Corps or combat arms fields caught up in this. Ironically, only one of the women who was commented on in the page seems to have been one of he new infantry Marines, almost all are women who where girlfriends (sometimes ex), wives, friends, if the Marines doing the photo sharing ... the problem wasn't caused by putting women into combat arms, the problem was the small percentage of dumbasses (who were already ) in combat arms who thought / think that sharing a private photo without the woman's consent is okay / cool.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  2. #12
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    The simple fact that whoever is running this page has relocated it somewhere else and is actually bragging about the media attention and the investigations and trying to get investigators to find them shows that they really don't care what they are doing nor do they think it's wrong.
    For the women who hadn't provided consent to disseminate the photos, what the photo-sharers think is immaterial to UCMJ Art 120c and applicable state laws, simple as that.

    If a female uploaded them herself, she has implied or specifically given (based on the website) consent. Identifying her by name, rank, unit etc. is definitely creepy / stalker-ish ... but likely wouldn't violate the UCMJ or state law.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    People can say "don't take nude photos if you don't want them to end up on the Internet." But that just detracts from the disgusting behavior of the people who hosted this site and for those who post "revenge porn" and photos after breakups. That's like telling someone who got robbed "Shouldn't have nice things." Or if you were walking down the street, minding your own business, and you get assaulted and mugged "Oh well that's your fault for walking down that street." How about we hold people accountable for their actions? Just a thought. I don't see any justification for them having that site and the fact that some admins are bragging about it is even more despicable.
    I would almost equate this to walking down the sidewalk next to a street. There is a certain 'relationship' between the pedestrian and the motor vehicle operator ... a trust -- the pedestrian trusts that the cars will stay on the road, the driver trusts that pedestrians won't just dart out into traffic. We don't blame the pedestrian for getting hit when they stay on the sidewalk and the car goes over the curb and hits them. We don't (necessarily) blame the driver when the pedestrian jumps out in front of the car. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy with photos like these. The "if you don't want these photos out there, you should not have taken them" viewpoint is akin to saying "you wouldn't have been hit had you not been on the sidewalk".
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Well folks, we all knew it was coming........

    & In response the photo sharing scandal, the Commandant has just announced "revolutionary new changes" to the Marine Corps 'sensitivity' training program.......

    Beginning next month all male recruits will be required to undergo a rigorous 80 hour initial block of instruction at Parris Island...... followed up with an 8 hour locally conducted , refresher session, each year thereafter.

    Additional details and anonymously leaked video (of the instructor course) can be found at the link below:

    https://www.rt.com/viral/377844-iron-crotch-kung-fu/
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 03-15-2017 at 06:49 PM.

  4. #14
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    Yea, when the congressional brats were grilling him the other day, i just KNEW one of the come outs of all this was yet "more sensitivity training".

    HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.
    Possible punishment for these Devil Dogs;

    Nuts;

    Three dogs were sitting in the waiting room at the vet's when they struck up a conversation.

    The Yellow Labrador turned to the Black Labrador and said, so why are you here? I'm a pisser. I piss on everything....the sofa, the curtains, the cat, the kids. But the final straw was last night when I pissed in the middle of my owner's bed. The Yellow Lab said, so what's the vet going to do? "Gonna cut my nuts off" came the reply from the Black Lab.
    They reckon it'll calm me down.

    The Black Lab then turned to the Yellow Lab and asked, why are you here? The Yellow Lab said, I'm a digger. I dig under fences, dig up flowers and trees, I dig just for the hell of it. When I'm inside, I dig up the carpets. But I went over the line last night when I dug a great big hole in owner's couch. So what are they going to do to you "the Black Lab inquired"? Looks like I'm losing my nuts too, the dejected Yellow Lab said.

    The Black Lab then turned to the Great Dane and asked, why are you here? I'm a humper, said the Great Dane. I'll hump anything. I'll hump the cat, a pillow, the table, fence posts, whatever. I want to hump
    everything I see. Yesterday my owner had just got out of the shower and was bending down to dry her toes, and I just couldn't help myself. I hopped on her back and started hammering away.
    The Black and the Yellow Labs exchanged a sad glance and said, "So, it's nuts off for you too, huh ?” The Great Dane said, “No, apparently I'm here to get my nails clipped!"

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.
    Possible punishment for these Devil Dogs;

    Nuts;

    Three dogs were sitting in the waiting room at the vet's when they struck up a conversation.

    The Yellow Labrador turned to the Black Labrador and said, so why are you here? I'm a pisser. I piss on everything....the sofa, the curtains, the cat, the kids. But the final straw was last night when I pissed in the middle of my owner's bed. The Yellow Lab said, so what's the vet going to do? "Gonna cut my nuts off" came the reply from the Black Lab.
    They reckon it'll calm me down.

    The Black Lab then turned to the Yellow Lab and asked, why are you here? The Yellow Lab said, I'm a digger. I dig under fences, dig up flowers and trees, I dig just for the hell of it. When I'm inside, I dig up the carpets. But I went over the line last night when I dug a great big hole in owner's couch. So what are they going to do to you "the Black Lab inquired"? Looks like I'm losing my nuts too, the dejected Yellow Lab said.

    The Black Lab then turned to the Great Dane and asked, why are you here? I'm a humper, said the Great Dane. I'll hump anything. I'll hump the cat, a pillow, the table, fence posts, whatever. I want to hump
    everything I see. Yesterday my owner had just got out of the shower and was bending down to dry her toes, and I just couldn't help myself. I hopped on her back and started hammering away.
    The Black and the Yellow Labs exchanged a sad glance and said, "So, it's nuts off for you too, huh ?” The Great Dane said, “No, apparently I'm here to get my nails clipped!"

  7. #17
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    That was funny as hell wave.. Thanks for the laugh.

  8. #18
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    Of course the go to answer for these things in the military is "more sensitivity training!!!" I'm not sure why these higher ups think that PowerPoint is the cure to the ills within our military. None of it has worked so far.

    If you have to get trained on how not to be a douchebag I think you have bigger issues in life...

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