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Thread: Retired 4-star demoted after sexual assault investigation

  1. #31
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Huh. Funny. Now that I'm thinking about it...... she never mentioned this 'green dot' thing, either.....
    It's fairly new. It's another one of those programs the AF has paid a fortune for. What's funny is that they've done the usual "This isn't the same as SAPR, this is something completely different" the same way they did with the AFSO 21 and other programs that transitioned from TQM and all that bullshit. It's all repackaged crap with a different name.

  2. #32
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Because 40 year old men are never coerced into doing something that is wrong? Maybe not sex, but pencil whipping maintenance records, inventories etc. She wasn't a Colonel at the time, she currently is a Colonel, likely a Major or LtCol when it happened ... I am not arguing she should have had more backbone ... but don't think this is an indictment of women and their ability to lead.
    Yeah, cuz pencil whipping and letting your commander bang you are exactly the same thing.

    My point is, this scenario is why I'm pretty sure everything was consensual. I believe that women are capable of being great leaders...I believe that this woman could have been a good leader...someone who is in the position and couldn't say "no", however, isn't capable. They are expected to make life and death situations on a daily basis...who would trust someone this weak?
    Last edited by sandsjames; 02-04-2017 at 07:01 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Yeah, cuz pencil whipping and letting your commander bang you are exactly the same thing.
    It could happen.

    Major (Ret) Rainmaker coerced Rainmaker into knocking her up 4 times......in her 20's, 30's and yes even 40 (fraternal twins)....... proving that God doth have a sense of humor!

    In each case, Rainmaker felt powerless to resist the "powers", that she held over him



    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    It's fairly new. It's another one of those programs the AF has paid a fortune for. What's funny is that they've done the usual "This isn't the same as SAPR, this is something completely different"
    Who comes up with this stuff? Now, It's true Rainmaker's dyslexic. But, doesn't "green" mean "go"?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 02-04-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  4. #34
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Who comes up with this stuff? Now, It's true Rainmaker's dyslexic. But, doesn't "green" mean "go"?
    It does to me, yes. Apparently what they want is to take a map of the base and eliminate all the "red" zones (for which they place a red dot) with "green" zones, for which they place a green dot. The red zones represent areas where assaults have taken place, etc. It's pretty bad...

  5. #35
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Yeah, cuz pencil whipping and letting your commander bang you are exactly the same thing.
    No, they aren't, the point being that some people are willing to compromise themselves to do something that (they think) will help themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    My point is, this scenario is why I'm pretty sure everything was consensual. I believe that women are capable of being great leaders...I believe that this woman could have been a good leader...someone who is in the position and couldn't say "no", however, isn't capable. They are expected to make life and death situations on a daily basis...who would trust someone this weak?
    I would agree that it was 'consensual', I think what got the MGen in trouble was that somebody convinced the SECAF and (new) SECDEF that it was coerced; I haven't seen whatever evidence did that. I really doubt it was just on the female's word alone.

    I think you are right, she shouldn't be an O6, she definitely shouldn't hold command ... she did make it through, was it the system that either didn't ID that she has incredibly poor judgement, was it that she may not have been in the top 10% of LtCol's but was in the top 50 or 60% and the selection rate allowed her to squeak in? Don't really know.

    From the MGen's laywer:

    An attorney for Lichte, Larry Younger, said in a statement that Lichte "did not commit a sexual assault and vehemently denies the unsworn allegations made against him." The general is not proud of what transpired but cooperated fully and provided statements under oath to defend against the allegations against him, Younger said.

    "General (Ret.) Arthur Lichte has continually asserted that he is deeply sorry for the pain he has caused his family, especially his strong and loving wife," the statement said. "He is regretful of the decisions he made that allowed him to find himself in this predicament. My client and his family ask for privacy to work through this difficult time.
    I would guess he defended himself against rape charges, but could not deny that some type of sexual relationship took place. The incidents took place in 2007 and 2009 when he was a 3 and 4-star and she was a Maj and LtCol, he was married, not sure if she is/was. So if there is any evidence something happened ... he was done. Interesting is that the investigation has apparently been going on for some time, and just this week Secretary Mattis (a no-BS kind of man) was the one who reviewed it and withdrew the certification that Lichte served honorably as a 4-star ... so this wasn't the Obama administration that finalized it, it was the current administration. If it was BS, I would expect that Mattis would not have withdrew the certification that Lichte served as a 3 & 4-star honorably.

    Regardless of how weak of a person she is, it doesn't negate that a board of fellow general officers, the SECAF and SECDEF Mattis found something sufficient enough to reduce a retired 4-star to a 2-star ... the maximum that could be done under the circumstances, that isn't something done lightly; if there is nothing there to warrant it I would expect the now MGen (ret) to appeal ... if not, that would tell me he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on. I can only guess that there is some sort of evidence of the incident and the coercion that the Col held on to (emails, letters, voicemails or something) that pushed the preponderance of evidence against the MGen. Take away the coercion and a 3-star / 4-star engaging in adultery, fraternization etc. with a Maj & LtCol would be sufficient to reduce him.

    I have read a few articles on this, this is most informative I have found:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...201-story.html

    As it is right now, I can't argue that the Col displayed moral weakness (either by allowing herself to be coerced or just carrying on with a married man -- was she married? don't know.) So he (the MGen -- a senior, SENIOR leader) preyed on the weakness of a subordinate and it is too bad he can't be hammered harder.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Sounds more like he was done for the pressuring and bullying, than the actual sexual assault part..

  7. #37
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    it is too bad he can't be hammered harder.
    Remind me not to get on your bad side commander. Odin shows no mercy.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 02-05-2017 at 03:04 PM.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Remind me not to get on your bad side commander. Odin shows no mercy.
    Abusing one's authority is one of the most egregious things someone can do. People who do so betray a special trust and one of the unique things about the military that makes the profession of arms more than a job.

    And no, Odin don't play that.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  9. #39
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Abusing one's authority is one of the most egregious things someone can do.
    Agree completely...whether a commander or a simple internet forum moderator, the ability to slam someone based on feeling personally slighted while allowing far worse to go on between others is a perfect example.

    And no, Odin don't play that.
    That's cuz Odin doesn't carry Mjolnir.

  10. #40
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Agree completely...whether a commander or a simple internet forum moderator, the ability to slam someone based on feeling personally slighted while allowing far worse to go on between others is a perfect example.
    Things have gotten heated but only once was it personal, when you brought my daughter into a conversation about sexual assault and I told you stop and you initially failed to do so. Like it or not Steve, that is personal ... if you don't like it, go find somewhere else to bitch about mods at. If you feel other people are getting away with worse, file a report ... when mods first came around they interfered in conversations too much, I try not to do that ... but yeah ... bring my kid into a conversation and I will tell you to stop, if you don't ... I will put you in time out like the child you are acting like.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    That's cuz Odin doesn't carry Mjolnir.
    Not normally, he has taken it back a few times though.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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