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Thread: Trump, Russian Hacking, Election etc.

  1. #11
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Turkey. An officer drawing retainer pay is required to register as an agent of a foreign government if receiving pay from a foreign government. LTG Flynn failed to do so until approx. 7 months after the fact.
    So, am I correct in understanding that you think that The Turkish government made a direct payment to Gen Flynn or contracted with his firm (through a Turkish owned company), to provide a deliverable (white paper) from which he derived profit-sharing ?

    If so I'd say you're mistaken...... But, If not....Then please explain. How exactly did they go about doing that?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 03-31-2017 at 06:29 PM.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    So, am I correct in understanding that you think that The Turkish government made a direct payment to Gen Flynn or contracted with his firm, to provide a deliverable (white paper) from which he derived profit-sharing ?

    If so I'd say you're mistaken...... But, If not....Then please explain. How exactly did they go about doing that?
    I don't know exactly what he did provide. He registered as an agent of a foreign power for accepting approx. $500,000 from the Turkish government. He was required by law (the Foreign Agents Registration Act -- FARA) to register ... he failed to do it for about 7 months.

    Also, specific to his status as a retired officer, Flynn is barred by the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution from receiving payment from a foreign government without express congressional approval. Congress passed 37 § U.S.C. 908 to allow such payment with permission of the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the officer’s service. The Secretary of the Army reportedly has no records of Flynn having requested or obtained such permission for his acceptance of payments Russia Today or the Turkish government for his lobbying work. If Flynn is determined to have violated the law with respect to his Turkish employment or payments from Russia, he may have to forfeit his military pay for the period in question.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  3. #13
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    So, am I correct in understanding that you think that The Turkish government made a direct payment to Gen Flynn or contracted with his firm, to provide a deliverable (white paper) from which he derived profit-sharing ?

    If so I'd say you're mistaken...... But, If not....Then please explain. How exactly did they go about doing that?
    I don't know exactly what he did provide. He registered as an agent of a foreign power for accepting approx. $500,000 from the Turkish government. He was required by law (the Foreign Agents Registration Act -- FARA) to register ... he failed to do it for about 7 months.

    Also, specific to his status as a retired member of the miltiary, Flynn is barred by the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution from receiving payment from a foreign government without express congressional approval. Congress passed 37 § U.S.C. 908 to allow such payment with permission of the Secretary of State and the Secretary of the officer’s service. The Secretary of the Army reportedly has no records of Flynn having requested or obtained such permission for his acceptance of payments Russia Today or the Turkish government for his lobbying work. If Flynn is determined to have violated the law with respect to his Turkish employment or payments from Russia, he may have to forfeit his military pay for the period in question.

    37 U.S. Code § 908 - Employment of reserves and retired members by foreign governments

    (a) Congressional Consent.—Subject to subsection (b), Congress consents to the following persons accepting civil employment (and compensation for that employment) for which the consent of Congress is required by the last paragraph of section 9 of article I of the Constitution, related to acceptance of emoluments, offices, or titles from a foreign government:
    (1) Retired members of the uniformed services.

    (2) Members of a reserve component of the armed forces.

    (3) Members of the Commissioned Reserve Corps of the Public Health Service.

    (b) Approval Required.—
    A person described in subsection (a) may accept employment or compensation described in that subsection only if the Secretary concerned and the Secretary of State approve the employment.

    (c) Military Service in Foreign Armed Forces.—
    For a provision of law providing the consent of Congress to service in the military forces of certain foreign nations, see section 1060 of title 10.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    It is a good statement ...
    It's intentionally ambiguous. Which is what good lawyers are supposed to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Acknowledges discussions.
    As far as I can tell......It Acknowledges discussions With the Intel committees. But, not with the FBI ........ But, I don't know...... or is that just a given?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    do you only agree to testify if you are granted immunity?
    There are discrepancies because some conflicting reports are saying he's Not asking for immunity.

    So, Let's Read it again......

    No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution.
    I'm not sure what this means. Is this asking for immunity or not?

    My hunch is that someone's being baited here because If they put him on the record with immunity.....then he goes off and the whole false narrative blow's up in their faces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    would the same hold true for a highly principled man ...
    They don't have to give you immunity to make you testify.

    So, If he's truly as you said "likely guilty of a crime"...... Then all they'd have to do is force his hand and see if he takes the fifth.......

    Now, How come they won't just do that? We don't know. Are they maybe afraid of him talking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    LTG Flynn has 4 Bronze Stars for meritorious service in various areas ... not for actions (which generally refers to combat actions) -- he has never been decorated for combat
    True. But, he's put himself in harm's way many times over for this Nation (Yes even as a GO) .

    Using Helos as chariots to fly in and out of secure compounds in multiple urban areas, all over shitholes like Iraq and Afghanistan (and other locations) on a regular basis for a decade on end, so that you can personally get eyes on the Intel collected and observe the situation from the ground and debrief the operators personally.......

    ..... is not something most of the self-serving Hypocrites (that are now anonymously smearing him in the press)..... would be willing to do themselves.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 03-31-2017 at 07:39 PM.

  5. #15
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    As far as I can tell......It Acknowledges discussions With the Intel committees. But, not with the FBI ........ But, I don't know...... or is that just a given?
    Congress cannot grant immunity from the prosecution, only the Judicial Branch (the FBI being part of that) could (or the President by a preemptive pardon).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    There are discrepancies because some conflicting reports are saying he's Not asking for immunity.
    He has not directly / publically asked. The line in the original statement about "if circumstances permit" came across (to me) like he won't testify (i.e. cooperate) without immunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    My hunch is that someone's being baited here because If they put him on the record with immunity.....then he goes off and the whole false narrative blow's up in their faces.
    Maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    They don't have to give you immunity to make you testify.

    So, If he's truly as you said "likely guilty of a crime"...... Then all they'd have to do is force his hand and see if he takes the fifth.......

    Now, How come they won't just do that? We don't know. Are they maybe afraid of him talking?
    Or ... if he just takes the fifth we don't get information on what the heck was going on. They need some way to start peeling the onion back ... it seems that Flynn may have some info that could help with that ... but he may have personal reasons to not want to talk (because as has been said, it does look like he may have violated a couple of laws -- not murder ... but he isn't perfectly clean either.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    True. But, he's put himself in harm's way many times over for this Nation (Yes even as a GO) .

    Using Helos as chariots to fly in and out of secure compounds in multiple urban areas, all over shitholes like Iraq and Afghanistan (and other locations) on a regular basis for a decade on end, so that you can personally get eyes on the Intel collected and observe the situation from the ground and debrief the operators personally.......

    ..... is not something most of the self-serving Hypocrites (that are now anonymously smearing him in the press)..... would be willing to do themselves.
    That's all true, well & good. The verbiage from the statement alludes to the awards being the heroic type vice the meritorious type.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I don't know exactly what he did provide. He registered as an agent of a foreign power for accepting approx. $500,000 from the Turkish government.
    Flynn Intel group registered as being hired by Dutch firm to produce a white paper that could be used for lobbying by Turkish interests.

    It wasn't like it was some big secret anyway. Hell. He authored an op-ed saying the same thing, that was published in the papers months before the election.

    & $500K was the cost for the deliverable produced by the firm. You and I have no idea how much Flynn himself personally profited, you have to pay people that actually do the work and cost of operations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    has been said, it does look like he may have violated a couple of laws -- not murder ... but he isn't perfectly clean either.

    Flynn is a patriot, he deserves better than to fall victim to a campaign innuendo by Obama holdovers anonymously spreading 1/2 truths and lies in the media.

    You can take anyone in his position and nit-pick their situation to death and find some technicality like the "constitutional emoluments clause" and then allude that he's potentially broken the law (with no evidence being presented other than media suggestion).

    After the election He sought an Ethics opinion from the White House council and the advice was he didn't have to disclose it. But, could if he wanted. Which he did later. Probably to protect himself against some Bureaucratic drill like this.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 03-31-2017 at 08:39 PM.

  7. #17
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Flynn Intel group registered as being hired by Dutch firm to produce a white paper that could be used for lobbying by Turkish interests.

    It wasn't like it was some big secret anyway. Hell. He authored an op-ed saying the same thing, that was published in the papers months before the election.

    & $500K was the cost for the deliverable produced by the firm. You and I have no idea how much Flynn himself personally profited, you have to pay people that actually do the work and cost of operations.
    You are right, we don't know how much he personally profited. But as the Chairman and CEO of the Flynn Intel Group, and the way the law is written ... he seems to have not done the right thing for about 7 months.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Flynn is a patriot, he deserves better than to fall victim to a campaign innuendo by Obama holdovers anonymously spreading 1/2 truths and lies in the media.

    You can take anyone in his position and nit-pick their situation to death and find some technicality like the "constitutional emoluments clause" and then allude that he's potentially broken the law (with no evidence being presented other than media suggestion).

    After the election He sought an Ethics opinion from the White House council and the advice was he didn't have to disclose it. But, could if he wanted. Which he did later. Probably to protect himself against some Bureaucratic drill like this.
    No doubt Flynn is a patriot, that doesn't absolve him of exhibiting what I would say is either poor judgement or ignorance (arrogance) about the arena he was stepping into. He probably does deserve better, but he also should have known and done better ... not just for himself ... but for the Administration. At best, this doesn't serve the administration well ... it allows the narrative (false or not) of Russian interference or collusion to permeate. It makes it look like the Administration picked someone for a very important job (for which he was qualified) who was corrupt or dishonest; he may be one or the other, or both or neither ... but the perception is bad and has and continues to harm the administration.

    It may be nitpicking to talk about the emoluments clause ... but it is the law. You and I are so far down on the food chain that if we did the same thing it would likely not get noticed, but we aren't a retired LTG, a former head of the DIA, someone becoming active in national politics, a prospective and then serving National Security Advisor. Yes, we are all supposed to be equal under the law, but to not think this would be a thing is ... kind of amateurish.

    The White House counsel telling him he didn't have to disclose the activity, doesn't mean he shouldn't have ... I imagine if he had this would all be a moot or negligible point.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I don't know exactly what he did provide. He registered as an agent of a foreign power for accepting approx. $500,000 from the Turkish government. He was required by law (the Foreign Agents Registration Act -- FARA) to register ... he failed to do it for about 7 months.
    FARA Law; 22 U.S. Code § 612 - Registration; Excerpts;
    - Every person who becomes an agent of a foreign principal shall, within ten days thereafter, file with the Attorney General, in duplicate, a registration statement, under oath on a form prescribed by the Attorney General.
    - (b) Supplements; filing period
    Every agent of a foreign principal who has filed a registration statement required by subsection (a) of this section shall, within thirty days after the expiration of each period of six months succeeding such filing, file with the Attorney General a supplement thereto under oath, on a form prescribed by the Attorney General, which shall set forth with respect to such preceding six months’ period such facts as the Attorney General, having due regard for the national security and the public interest, may deem necessary to make the information required under this section accurate, complete, and current with respect to such period. In connection with the information furnished under clauses (3), (4), (6), and (9) of subsection (a) of this section, the registrant shall give notice to the Attorney General of any changes therein within ten days after such changes occur. If the Attorney General, having due regard for the national security and the public interest, determines that it is necessary to carry out the purposes of this subchapter, he may, in any particular case, require supplements to the registration statement to be filed at more frequent intervals in respect to all or particular items of information to be furnished.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/612

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  10. #19
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Congress cannot grant immunity from the prosecution, only the Judicial Branch (the FBI being part of that) could
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    The line in the original statement about "if circumstances permit" came across (to me) like he won't testify (i.e. cooperate) without immunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    if he just takes the fifth we don't get information on what the heck was going on. They need some way to start peeling the onion back ... it seems that Flynn may have some info that could help with that
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    it is speculation on my part that Flynn may not be the biggest fish they want to fry in this.
    Well If that's truly the case, that the FBI has him by the balls..... Then wouldn't it make sense for them to grant him immunity from prosecution and make him testify under condition that he not be allowed to take the 5th?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 04-01-2017 at 11:43 AM.

  11. #20
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Well If that's truly the case, that the FBI has him by the balls..... Then wouldn't it make sense for them to grant him immunity from prosecution and make him testify under condition that he not be allowed to take the 5th?
    Don't know; not sure exactly what they have leads on. I am not a lawyer, but if the reported timelines re: the filing as an agent of a foreign power for his work at his firm put him in violation of FARA and Title 37 sec 908; if they want him ... it seems pretty clear they could have him on that.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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