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Thread: At least 59 airmen wrongly failed fitness test due to mismeasured tracks

  1. #11
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Bitch Tits Are Our Greatest Strength!!!
    Not sure what this relates to. Please take a knee on this.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    If any were forced out, would have to look at it. Got a bad eval as a result, expunge the eval. If separated, you can't backpay for time they didn't work ... maybe offer reinstatement at highest grade held.



    Not so much a line, most of the jackassery in other threads develops ... in an otherwise professional, polite & benign conversation you decided to be rude and crass. Take a knee on that if you would.
    Take a knee? What does that mean...seriously...not an Air Force term so I'm at a loss.

  3. #13
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Take a knee? What does that mean...seriously...not an Air Force term so I'm at a loss.
    Take a knee: take a break. 10 days sounds about right.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    When I was in the USMC, the instruction (Marine Corps Order actually) didn't specify the measurement device. The Navy instruction specifies you have to use a wheel or bicycle odometer ... it prohibits car odometer or GPS (which is weird since GPS would be hyper accurate).

    In part this is why I am not ready to fire anyone. What device was used (does the AFI specify what device has to be used etc.?) Was the course accurate per the device that was used? Was the course previously measured using a wheel and a GPS (which is more accurate) showed the discrepancy noted because they got a new / more accurate measuring tool? Too many unknowns from the article to really state one way or the other.
    You are incorrect.

    GPS's are nice ballpark devices, but they are not that accurate for measuring distance.

    A wheel is far more accurate.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member WILDJOKER5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    You are incorrect.

    GPS's are nice ballpark devices, but they are not that accurate for measuring distance.

    A wheel is far more accurate.
    I would agree with you. I always found it strange though that the GPS (iPhone) would come up with the same distance every time, even on our 5k runs. Even when the gym closed down the inside lane for repairs, we still had to finish in the same spot every time. When we moved to the inside track, my time went down a lot. Other places I ran under 13 mins.
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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILDJOKER5 View Post
    I would agree with you.
    It is not so much an agree/disagree issue as it is a well-documented fact.

    I always found it strange though that the GPS (iPhone) would come up with the same distance every time, even on our 5k runs. Even when the gym closed down the inside lane for repairs, we still had to finish in the same spot every time. When we moved to the inside track, my time went down a lot. Other places I ran under 13 mins.
    "Ballpark" may be a bit of an exaggeration. GPSs are nice devices and convenient, and surely accurate enough for training, but should not be used to certify distances for this...can have errors up to 5% or so. Not only are they affected by satellite position, atmospheric shifts, weather etc....but they use a sampling technique that does not constantly monitor position, but takes as sample every so often and fills in the gaps mathematically.

    USATF uses a wheel. A course measured by GPS could not be used for qualifying times, records etc.
    Last edited by Bos Mutus; 10-14-2016 at 03:09 PM.
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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILDJOKER5 View Post
    I would agree with you. I always found it strange though that the GPS (iPhone) would come up with the same distance every time, even on our 5k runs. Even when the gym closed down the inside lane for repairs, we still had to finish in the same spot every time. When we moved to the inside track, my time went down a lot. Other places I ran under 13 mins.
    I haven't looked it up, but I would venture to guess that an iphone is far less accurate than a stand-alone GPS device that you can buy in a sporting goods store.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    In part this is why I am not ready to fire anyone. What device was used (does the AFI specify what device has to be used etc.?) Was the course accurate per the device that was used?
    Okay...let's say the guy who was out there measuring the course followed the AFI perfectly. No accountability on that.

    Who wrote the AFI? Did that person use due diligence...where they a course certification expert or did they consult one?

    Let's root cause this deal...how did a 1.5 course get certified while being 360 feet long?

    Was the course previously measured using a wheel and a GPS (which is more accurate) showed the discrepancy noted because they got a new / more accurate measuring tool? Too many unknowns from the article to really state one way or the other.
    I would agree that from the article we can not possibly know where accountability should lay. But, for how much the AF preaches accountability, accountability when it is an individual PT responsibility...it should be pursued.
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    You are incorrect.

    GPS's are nice ballpark devices, but they are not that accurate for measuring distance.

    A wheel is far more accurate.
    You are right ... I am more basing my thought on a milgrade that would constantly update.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  10. #20
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Okay...let's say the guy who was out there measuring the course followed the AFI perfectly. No accountability on that.
    Maybe the person doing the measuring did. For the 85 foot discrepancy ... that small of a distance could be where on the course the individual measured (from the outside or inside of the turns etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Who wrote the AFI? Did that person use due diligence...where they a course certification expert or did they consult one?
    Good point, but in some cases again, my mentality on this comes from being in two services that allow a fudge factor on this. As a Marine, the run was "3 miles" (plus or minus a tenth of a mile) ... I am pretty sure I ran a few that were short, and a few that were long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Let's root cause this deal...how did a 1.5 course get certified while being 360 feet long?
    I agree, figure out what went wrong, fix the problem. Go in with the mentality that you want to find who to blame and burn, few are likely to cooperate with you doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I would agree that from the article we can not possibly know where accountability should lay. But, for how much the AF preaches accountability, accountability when it is an individual PT responsibility...it should be pursued.
    If you find negligence fine ... if you find that something changed fine. At the same time, examine the folks who failed. Would an 85 foot or 360 foot shorter course have mattered? If you are talking a few seconds ... maybe ... if you are talking a minute ... no.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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