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Thread: At least 59 airmen wrongly failed fitness test due to mismeasured tracks

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    At least 59 airmen wrongly failed fitness test due to mismeasured tracks

    Since 2008, 59 airmen at two bases may have unfairly failed their fitness assessments because the tracks they ran on were longer than they should have been, the Air Force announced Thursday.

    As a result of the discoveries, Air Force leaders have ordered all bases to recertify their 1.5-mile running courses and 2-kilometer walking courses by Oct. 31 to make sure there are no other tracks with the same problem.

    Air Force spokeswoman Brooke Brzozowske said the service is not halting use of those other tracks for fitness assessments while the recertification is taking place, since it has no indication now that they are mismeasured.

    The Air Force said that officials at Goodfellow Air Force Base in Texas inspected its outdoor running course earlier this year and found it was 85 feet longer than required. The indoor running track at Hanscom Air Force Base in Massachusetts was even further off — 360 feet longer than required. The Hanscom track's mismeasurement was discovered after an airman filed an appeal.

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...easured-tracks
    No doubt it is someone's job to certify running tracks...wonder if they'll have to put on their blues and explain to the wing commander how this could've happened...
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    No doubt it is someone's job to certify running tracks...wonder if they'll have to put on their blues and explain to the wing commander how this could've happened...
    Wonder what recourse those who got booted out for those failures, or missed promotion testing due to a referral EPR will have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    No doubt it is someone's job to certify running tracks...wonder if they'll have to put on their blues and explain to the wing commander how this could've happened...
    I know when i was over in London, cause we went from an ave of 4-7 people failing the mile and a half run on the older course we did in hyde park (though it had ups and downs which the new regs said had to go to make it "flat", one of the PRT coordinators who ran all over hyde/kensington/green parks, changed our spot. THAT next PRT cycle, we had over 20 people (out of the 94 or so in the command) fail, and all failed on the run.. Command said "well, just give it one more cycle, to see if it really is the new course". Well the next one, hit and it went to 23 fails (and i was one on BOTH times).. Only times i have ever failed a PRT, though i came close on two cycles for pushups...

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Wonder what recourse those who got booted out for those failures, or missed promotion testing due to a referral EPR will have.
    They damn well should have the PRT score for those times should be erased and they should get to re-run them. If they already got out processed.. they should be able to immediately get reinstated..

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    No doubt it is someone's job to certify running tracks...wonder if they'll have to put on their blues and explain to the wing commander how this could've happened...
    85 feet too long, 85 feet ... meh.

    When I was in the Marines, the run was 3 miles, the Marine Corps Order on the PFT allowed for a tolerance of a tenth of a mile on the measurement. The Navy allows the same thing. I don't know if the AFI has the same discrepancy tolerance (if they are directing everyone to remeasure thier courses maybe not).

    A 1.5 mile course is 7920 feet, 85 feet too long is a discrepancy of 1.07% ... very low. Even if you were running on a typical circular track, an 85 foot discrepancy could be the difference between running the inside or outside lane for 6x 1/4 mile laps. Is it too bad for people that failed, yes ... give them a do over. If this failure caused them to get kicked out not sure how the USAF would handle that, not really sure procedurally how the Navy would either, reentry after separation is more than just "hey ... come to work on Monday".

    Is this worth firing someone? Disciplining someone? There really aren't enough specifics to know one way or the other.
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    85 feet too long, 85 feet ... meh.
    3 seconds too slow. 3 seconds... meh. 1 push-up too few. 1 push-up... meh. The regs be the regs boss man...I've never known an AF commander who would just let the PT test score slide because they were "close enough". Your response is kinda worrysome.

    It's absolutely worth firing someone. The people who miss the minimum score by 1 point get "fired". Those who miss passing by 1 point (or less) still get a referral EPR and are denied re-enlistment or promotion/testing if the failure happens just before the reporting period ends.

    So take that "85 feet too long" bullshit somewhere else. You ever tell your troops "Well, your BAC was only .01 over the legal limit so screw those cops"? I doubt it...what a fucking joke with that response.
    Last edited by sandsjames; 10-14-2016 at 10:47 AM.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    3 seconds too slow. 3 seconds... meh. 1 push-up too few. 1 push-up... meh. The regs be the regs boss man...I've never known an AF commander who would just let the PT test score slide because they were "close enough". Your response is kinda worrysome.

    It's absolutely worth firing someone. The people who miss the minimum score by 1 point get "fired". Those who miss passing by 1 point (or less) still get a referral EPR and are denied re-enlistment or promotion/testing if the failure happens just before the reporting period ends.

    So take that "85 feet too long" bullshit somewhere else. You ever tell your troops "Well, your BAC was only .01 over the legal limit so screw those cops"? I doubt it...what a fucking joke with that response.
    I get your point, but again, the instructions for both services I have been in allow a tolerance for the distance ... so yeah ... I do have a bit of a meh factor on this. Let those that failed retest ... get the course right with the instruction etc.

    No need to be rude just cause we disagree on it.
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I get your point, but again, the instructions for both services I have been in allow a tolerance for the distance ... so yeah ... I do have a bit of a meh factor on this. Let those that failed retest ... get the course right with the instruction etc.

    No need to be rude just cause we disagree on it.
    So what are you doing with those who were forced out of the service? Backpay? Reinstatement?

    And this is where you draw the line on being rude? Really?

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    Senior Member WILDJOKER5's Avatar
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    The last base I was at, my GPS always had the 1.5 mile marked at around the last turn of the track, but we had to run another 40 meters to finish. I only failed once by 26 sec, then I gained 30 or so secs from turning 30 and I was all good again. But every time I ran with my GPS on, it always marked the same spots for distances.
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    So what are you doing with those who were forced out of the service? Backpay? Reinstatement?
    If any were forced out, would have to look at it. Got a bad eval as a result, expunge the eval. If separated, you can't backpay for time they didn't work ... maybe offer reinstatement at highest grade held.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    And this is where you draw the line on being rude? Really?
    Not so much a line, most of the jackassery in other threads develops ... in an otherwise professional, polite & benign conversation you decided to be rude and crass. Take a knee on that if you would.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    3 seconds too slow. 3 seconds... meh. 1 push-up too few. 1 push-up... meh. The regs be the regs boss man...I've never known an AF commander who would just let the PT test score slide because they were "close enough". Your response is kinda worrysome.

    It's absolutely worth firing someone. The people who miss the minimum score by 1 point get "fired". Those who miss passing by 1 point (or less) still get a referral EPR and are denied re-enlistment or promotion/testing if the failure happens just before the reporting period ends.

    So take that "85 feet too long" bullshit somewhere else. You ever tell your troops "Well, your BAC was only .01 over the legal limit so screw those cops"? I doubt it...what a fucking joke with that response.
    I've gotten a lot of stick from many in my naval career cause i wasn't willing to 'give them' the pass, if they were close, especially on push ups and the sit ups.. Heck we had one e5 who was like 9 away and he was begging me to say 'he made it'..

    Now, this is where i DO feel there should be some modification.
    IF you score outstanding on say the run, you could (NOTE COULD, not should) get a 1 or 2 sit up/push up leeway, and an extra % on body fat..
    Excellent, and you could get one OR the other.

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