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Thread: Equal Opportunity

  1. #21
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    There's a reason that I came up with what I came up with this idea. I have three children: two daughters, age 10 and 3; and a son who will be 10 months old in just over a week.

    Would I like them to go to college if that's what they want to do? Of course. However, if they choose not to, I am willing to let them stay home rent-free (I will provide food, clothing, and allowances to them as I always have) as long as they are working full time and are setting aside 100% of their pay aside to purchase a home, condo, or business - which can be done in four years.

    Think about this... as a parent, you can put your child through college. But, if given the choice to spend the same amount of money that you would have spent on college to start him or her off with a business or a home... would you choose different? I probably would.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Rusty's idea is actually pretty close to the concept of "Basic Income" discussed here

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...-basic-income/

    It's actually a really interesting concept. It costs a lot of money to administer federal programs like TANF, WIC, Medicaid, Section 8 housing, etc.

    In some ways it would be smarter if we just gave the money directly to the people to spend however they like. I always hear people complaining about others using their EBT card to buy steak, lobster, etc. Why the fuck does it matter? The person gets a set amount for food. If they decide to be a dummy and buy the most expensive meals they will run out of money. It isn't your job to tell people how to budget their food stamps.
    I also agree with the premise, but what happens when people blow that money and have nothing to show for it? Do we just let them live on the streets and be ok with it? You know that's not going to happen, so we end up still having to provide welfare as we are currently doing, plus giving up this lump sum ahead of time.

  3. #23
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    There's a reason that I came up with what I came up with this idea. I have three children: two daughters, age 10 and 3; and a son who will be 10 months old in just over a week.

    Would I like them to go to college if that's what they want to do? Of course. However, if they choose not to, I am willing to let them stay home rent-free (I will provide food, clothing, and allowances to them as I always have) as long as they are working full time and are setting aside 100% of their pay aside to purchase a home, condo, or business - which can be done in four years.

    Think about this... as a parent, you can put your child through college. But, if given the choice to spend the same amount of money that you would have spent on college to start him or her off with a business or a home... would you choose different? I probably would.
    You are including responsibility with your kids, though, and that's the difference. There is no way to expect the same amount of responsibility from everyone. That's an awesome idea for your children. Sounds like a great plan. But what you are suggesting is that we give out this money with no requirements (maintaining a full time job, putting money away for the future).

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Then they go to college and have a skill to fall back on. Right now people go to college with nothing to fall back on. I don't see a down side.
    My concern is that if someone went solely vocational, they may lack the basic academic requirement if they opted for college at 18, 19 or 25 etc. I agree that a vocation to fall back on is a really good idea ... I don't argue that college is for everyone, but don't know if this path would be shutting that door.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    People in their 30s don't know what they want to do for the rest of their life. My step-son went to British schools when we were stationed in England. At age 16, they have the option of which path to take. It works out great, from our experience with it.
    I am 43 and don't.
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    There's a reason that I came up with what I came up with this idea. I have three children: two daughters, age 10 and 3; and a son who will be 10 months old in just over a week.
    Congrats on the new kid BTW ... you virile monster you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Would I like them to go to college if that's what they want to do? Of course. However, if they choose not to, I am willing to let them stay home rent-free (I will provide food, clothing, and allowances to them as I always have) as long as they are working full time and are setting aside 100% of their pay aside to purchase a home, condo, or business - which can be done in four years.

    Think about this... as a parent, you can put your child through college. But, if given the choice to spend the same amount of money that you would have spent on college to start him or her off with a business or a home... would you choose different? I probably would.
    I think it would depend on what my kid wanted to do. A month ago she wanted to be a veterinarian ... yesterday she wanted to be a princess. But ... she is 5 and has time. There will come a point that there will be a discussion about what she wants to do and we plan on helping her no matter what she chooses ... if she changes her mind at 25 an no longer wants to be a [pick a job] and wants to be a [pick a job] then it may be up to her to make it happen ... don't really know.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  6. #26
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    My concern is that if someone went solely vocational, they may lack the basic academic requirement if they opted for college at 18, 19 or 25 etc. I agree that a vocation to fall back on is a really good idea ... I don't argue that college is for everyone, but don't know if this path would be shutting that door.
    Shutting the door for who? Those who are dropping out their sophomore year because they already know that college isn't really an option?

    I'm not sure if you remember back that far but there's not a whole lot of mandatory classes those last two years of high school. The basics are taught well before that. Grade 11/12 offer the more advanced stuff, generally. Different history classes, pre-calculus/calculus, etc...mostly stuff that isn't important unless you plan on going on to college anyway.
    Last edited by sandsjames; 07-22-2016 at 03:31 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Aaaaannnnnnndddddd..... I knew this was coming. And Clinton is not a socialist.
    True. The Hildabeast is a a Puppet of the transnational banking industry (which is largely run by and for the benefit of International Socialist dual passport holders). All the old guard establishment RINOs are the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Furthermore, I know of no socialist country that gives a large sum of money to those entering adulthood to start them off with.
    The term in the banking industry for this (printing money and handing it directly to the citizens) to infuse cash into the system is called "Helicopter money".

    It's been tried several times before throughout history with disastrous results most notably in the Weimer republic and Zimbabwe & most recently in Chavez's Socialist Utopia of Venezuela. Where inflation is currently running 720% and even though they have the largest proven oil reserves in the world, the country has descended into total chaos.

    Of course this too gets minimal coverage in Amerikka because, they want the dumbed down average sheeple thinking stupid stuff like this could actually be a good idea.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-22-2016 at 04:21 PM.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Shutting the door for who? Those who are dropping out their sophomore year because they already no that college isn't really an option?

    I'm not sure if you remember back that far but there's not a whole lot of mandatory classes those last two years of high school. The basics are taught well before that. Grade 11/12 offer the more advanced stuff, generally. Different history classes, pre-calculus/calculus, etc...mostly stuff that isn't important unless you plan on going on to college anyway.
    Correct, and that is my point. A kid who decides to go the vocational track who only takes Algebra and maybe Geometry because they are going into a skilled trade who changes their mind on college a few years later will be at a disadvantage.

    I was only required to take 2 years of HS math -- Algebra was in the 8th grade, so I took Geometry 9th and Algebra II in the 10th. I also took Trigonometry in the 11th and Calculus in the 12th. After one year of college (I took College Algebra with Trig 101 for a semester), I dropped out of college for about 5 or 6 years. Despite a really heavy concentration in math in HS, I had a really ... I mean REALLY hard time with the required math to finish a Bachelors (of Arts ... not a technical degree). My math had really degraded. How would it be for someone who didn't have the basics?

    I think taking a kid who wants to go into a vocation and ignoring the basic common education in HS shuts the door to them going to college down the road. I am not talking putting them all through Calculus or Physics ... but the basics and then maintaining / reinforcing it so it sticks beyond their sophomore year of high school. I would prefer a mix of vocational / academics to allow options down the road.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  9. #29
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Shutting the door for who? Those who are dropping out their sophomore year because they already no that college isn't really an option?

    I'm not sure if you remember back that far but there's not a whole lot of mandatory classes those last two years of high school. The basics are taught well before that. Grade 11/12 offer the more advanced stuff, generally. Different history classes, pre-calculus/calculus, etc...mostly stuff that isn't important unless you plan on going on to college anyway.
    Correct, and that is my point. A kid who decides to go the vocational track who only takes Algebra and maybe Geometry because they are going into a skilled trade who changes their mind on college a few years later will be at a disadvantage.

    I was only required to take 2 years of HS math -- Algebra was in the 8th grade, so I took Geometry 9th and Algebra II in the 10th. I also took Trigonometry in the 11th and Calculus in the 12th. After one year of college (I took College Algebra with Trig 101 for a semester), I dropped out of college for about 5 or 6 years. Despite a really heavy concentration in math in HS, I had a really ... I mean REALLY hard time with the required math to finish a Bachelors (of Arts ... not a technical degree). My math had really degraded. How would it be for someone who didn't have the basics?

    I think taking a kid who wants to go into a vocation and ignoring the basic common education in HS shuts the door to them going to college down the road. I am not talking putting them all through Calculus or Physics ... but the basics and then maintaining / reinforcing it so it sticks beyond their sophomore year of high school. I would prefer a mix of vocational / academics to allow options down the road.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  10. #30
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Correct, and that is my point. A kid who decides to go the vocational track who only takes Algebra and maybe Geometry because they are going into a skilled trade who changes their mind on college a few years later will be at a disadvantage.

    I was only required to take 2 years of HS math -- Algebra was in the 8th grade, so I took Geometry 9th and Algebra II in the 10th. I also took Trigonometry in the 11th and Calculus in the 12th. After one year of college (I took College Algebra with Trig 101 for a semester), I dropped out of college for about 5 or 6 years. Despite a really heavy concentration in math in HS, I had a really ... I mean REALLY hard time with the required math to finish a Bachelors (of Arts ... not a technical degree). My math had really degraded. How would it be for someone who didn't have the basics?

    I think taking a kid who wants to go into a vocation and ignoring the basic common education in HS shuts the door to them going to college down the road. I am not talking putting them all through Calculus or Physics ... but the basics and then maintaining / reinforcing it so it sticks beyond their sophomore year of high school. I would prefer a mix of vocational / academics to allow options down the road.
    My point is that the basics are done by sophomore year anyway and those who are going to go the vocational route aren't going to be the ones who are going to be taking calculus (because it's optional) in the first place, so they aren't losing anything.

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