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Thread: Instant E7 or O6?

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Instant E7 or O6?

    Defense Secretary Ash Carter wants to open the door for more “lateral entry” into the military's upper ranks, clearing the way for lifelong civilians with vital skills and strong résumés to enter the officer corps as high as the O-6 paygrade.

    The idea is controversial, to say the very least. For many in the rank-and-file military, it seems absurd, a bewildering cultural change that threatens to upend many assumptions about military life and traditional career paths. But while it's not universally embraced, there is interest in Congress and among some of the military's uniformed leaders — even, they say, in exploring how the services could apply this concept to the enlisted force.

    cont.

    http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...rter/85884998/

    It is an interesting proposal, the Navy and Air Force seem to be the most supportive, the Army and Marine Corps being more reserved.

    I see benefits and drawbacks to the idea.

    As admitted by the Navy, the focus for this effort currently is in the cyber warfare community where, the skills just don't exist in the current force to meet the mission, the people who have the skills do not want to assess as an E1 or E3 or O1 so ... what to do. In that respect making them an instant E5 or E7 / O3 or O4 is the same thing we do with lawyers and doctors etc.

    As a drawback (probably what the more combat oriented services are concerned about) is the lack of military experience that these technical experts have. And a potential lop-siding of the rank structure in particular fields. For officers specifically there are limits on the number of a particular grade of officer built into Congressional end-strength limits (gain an O5 technician, lose an O5 tactician).

    A possible work around would be to establish something like the discontinued Army Specialist ranks that went from E4 to E9 (non-NCO's with technical expertise.) They could still be compensated more appropriate to their skill sets, but do not exercise the authority of an NCO the way a SGT or SSGT would.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    What about the people who've busted their asses and paid their dues for 20 years, and never reached those paygrades? Not that the Generals and Admirals making these decisions give two shits, but such a program would be a slap in the face to them.

    It also suprises me that, of all services, the Navy is among the most open to this.

    I don't agree with Army Specialist ranks. It's like this: first off, Spec 8 and Spec 9 only existed on paper. In other words, no one in the Army has ever held either of these two ranks. Secondly... this is second hand information that I've heard from a few Vietnam vets (i.e., I can't find anything on paper that states this as official practice), but the ranks of Spec 6 and Spec 7 were supposedly filled by slow-witted or high functioning autistic personnel who were inducted when the Army's standards for entry were at their lowest.

    If this is indeed the case, then bringing back something reminiscent of those times... probably not a good idea.

    If they want these guys to get paid for their expertise and experience, then a better idea would be to offer higher bonuses than what's given to nukes and SpecOps or an extra grand or two a month in some form of differential pay; but still bring them in as E1-E3, like everyone else.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    What about the people who've busted their asses and paid their dues for 20 years, and never reached those paygrades? Not that the Generals and Admirals making these decisions give two shits, but such a program would be a slap in the face to them.
    The plan would allow accessions UP TO those grade, not necessarily everyone would get that senior of a direct.

    Sorta the same problem already ... some MOS's promote much faster than others (I have seen E4's with more time in service than E6's) ... pick your rate, pick your fate in many cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    It also suprises me that, of all services, the Navy is among the most open to this.
    Not me, the navy is targeting their cyber warfare area right now with it. The Navy is the service with the biggest 'delta' on the cyber skill set. It will take 10 years to train a cyber specialist from zero level to the level of knowledge that they need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    If they want these guys to get paid for their expertise and experience, then a better idea would be to offer higher bonuses than what's given to nukes and SpecOps or an extra grand or two a month in some form of differential pay; but still bring them in as E1-E3, like everyone else.
    Good point, the counter argument to just the money is that most of the young 30's crowd that have the skills regardless of pay don't want to deal with the BS of being an E3 etc.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Well, when I give it a bit more thought... there is one way that I could get onboard with this. Two conditions would have to be met:

    1. ALL potential recruits would have to be screened for work and supervisory/managerial experience, and ALL ratings would have to be eligible. For example... if someone was shift manager at Applebee's, they should be able to come in as a CS1. If someone owned a corner store, barber shop, or dry cleaning/laundry facility, they should be able to come in as an SHC.

    2. This program would have to be phased in by paygrade over a 15 to 20 year period. For example, for the first few years, the highest you can come in as is an E4. After awhile, they extend it to E5, and so forth. This would prevent that sudden shock that would throw the military into a big upheaval but putting in E7's right away. It also allows the people who are under what will become the "old school" mindset to retire before they're affected by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Good point, the counter argument to just the money is that most of the young 30's crowd that have the skills regardless of pay don't want to deal with the BS of being an E3 etc.
    Then going in as enlisted isn't for them. They need to finish their degrees and go officer.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 06-22-2016 at 12:52 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Total Bullshit. DoD already outsources for the Technical SMEs it supposedly "needs" thru service contracts with Private Industry to the tune of $150+ Billion a year.

    But, there's not enough "Diversity" in the senior ranks to satisfy the social engineers, so what better way to get it than by instituting direct appointments of a bunch of Soviet style political officers of the correct color/gender to get to the result they want.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 06-22-2016 at 01:26 PM.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    But, there's not enough "Diversity" in the senior ranks to satisfy the social engineers, so what better way to get it than by instituting direct appointments of a bunch of Soviet style political officers of the correct color/gender to get to the result they want.
    Can you please, for once in your life, stop going out of your way to find ways to relate completely unrelated topics to your personal issues with "diversity?"
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Can you please, for once in your life, stop going out of your way to find ways to relate completely unrelated topics to your personal issues with "diversity?"
    He can't do it. Like any partisan politician, he has his list of talking points and buzz words and any topic will circle back around.

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Can you please, for once in your life, stop going out of your way to find ways to relate completely unrelated topics to your personal issues with "diversity?"
    It's completely related Rusty.

    Maybe you missed it. But, the DoD already outsources for the Technical SMEs it supposedly "needs" thru service contracts with Private Industry to the tune of $150+ Billion a year.

    So Mr. Rainmaker, what military purpose does ramming all this other dumbfuck stuff thru serve you ask?

    Well ....all you have to do is look at the rhetoric that's coming from certified neocon and Goldman Sachs weenie, Ash Carter that's right there for all to see!

    http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...erns/83004196/

    http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-View/Article/604799

    Translation: If these pentagoon faggots get their way, chix with dix will soon be coming off the street and serving key positions alongside with rest of the that PC hacks that are being groomed to become the next generation of General Officers.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    It's completely related Rusty.

    Maybe you missed it. But, the DoD already outsources for the Technical SMEs it supposedly "needs" thru service contracts with Private Industry to the tune of $150+ Billion a year.

    So Mr. Rainmaker, what military purpose does ramming all this other dumbfuck stuff thru serve you ask?

    Well ....all you have to do is look at the rhetoric that's coming from certified neocon and Goldman Sachs weenie, Ash Carter that's right there for all to see!

    http://www.militarytimes.com/story/m...erns/83004196/

    http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-View/Article/604799

    Translation: If these pentagoon faggots get their way, chix with dix will soon be coming off the street and serving key positions alongside with rest of the that PC hacks that are being groomed to become the next generation of General Officers.
    I'm not addressing this bullshit. This is a good topic, and I'm not going to participate in its derailment. Not this early, when we haven't even made it past the first fucking page.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 06-22-2016 at 02:07 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    He can't do it. Like any partisan politician, he has his list of talking points and buzz words and any topic will circle back around.
    You should probably log off now and retreat to your safe space, before we start being divisive and your feelings get hurt.

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