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Thread: The controversial plan to slash military housing allowance faces opposition

  1. #21
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    That's why they get paid more base pay. Nobody should be expected to live in the ghetto. The BAH should cover enough for a two bedroom house in a "safe" neighborhood. You want more rooms, or a better neighborhood? Come out of pocket...SNCOs make plenty of money in order to have a better home in a better neighborhood. That's one of the benefits of getting promoted, as it is in any job.

    What isn't a necessity for the military to provide a MSgt with a 4 bedroom house in The Hamptons.

    Again, my question is very simple. If more BAH is paid because RHIP then why isn't more BAS paid? Is a SNCO expected to eat Top Ramen like lower ranks are? The answer is also very simple. The military provides the basic necessity...anything extra comes out of pocket. That's how it should be.
    You would actually need bigger payraises in the base pay to make those promotions worth it. However, that's not going to happen. The reason why a good chunk of the payraise is on the BAH side in the first place is because BAH is not calculated into retirement. Otherwise, there'd be no need for BAH, and it would be aborbed into base pay.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    We should buy officers a car, too...definitely. I believe for O-1 to O-3 it's a convertible BMW or anything that resembles a Mazda Miata. O-4/O-5s should definitely get something between an SS Camaro and a Vet...O-6 and above don't get anything because they use their staff cars for everything, including their wife going to the commissary where they bring their own bags and don't tip.
    If it is just about not liking officers ... Then it just is what is.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  3. #23
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    If it is just about not liking officers ... Then it just is what is.
    Huh? I don't mind officers. Are you telling me my stereotypes weren't spot on?

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Huh? I don't mind officers. Are you telling me my stereotypes weren't spot on?
    I don't think they are, but that is based on my experience which is likely different than yours.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I don't think they are, but that is based on my experience which is likely different than yours.
    True...in our tech school training course we end up with a lot of outdated information or find out that we are teaching certain stuff incorrectly. We don't notice it because we're on the inside. It takes "new blood" or someone from the outside to look in to let us see the things we don't because we're used to them.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    True...in our tech school training course we end up with a lot of outdated information or find out that we are teaching certain stuff incorrectly. We don't notice it because we're on the inside. It takes "new blood" or someone from the outside to look in to let us see the things we don't because we're used to them.
    Yeah ... and I don't know a good way to put this without sounding like I am bashing / hating on the Air Force ... so here goes: I have been in the Marine Corps and the Navy, and worked heavily with the Army; admittedly my exposure to the Air Force is limited to a couple of schools, living in the SP barracks on Fairchild AFB for a year and a couple of deployments to AUAB and Incirlik. The Air Force culture is very different to that of the other services. Not saying it is right or wrong etc. but it is really different and I am pretty glad that I went the route that I did.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I disagree with this plan but not for the same reason that many of you do. As a prior finance person trying to manage BAH based on actual costs is a fucking nightmare.

    This new system won't actually save money because we'll end up needing more people to manage the program. Every single time you move you need to come to finance and update your BAH? It costs money to process a transaction even if there is not an actual monetary effect to the member.

    (P.S. BAH based on actual costs increases fraud. People alter their lease, lie about who all lives there, or they negotiate things into the rent such as maid service. Bottom line, people will spend the maximum amount possible if there is no reason not to.)
    I know its that way when i was overseas.. The local landlords and realters ALL had copies of the most up to date OHA rates, and no matter WHERE you went, the rental rate, was Exactly what your pay grade's max was....

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Here's my solution: Every person stationed at the same base should get the same BAH. Here at Wright-Patterson an E3 with dependents gets $1122 and without dependents gets $822. Both are a lot higher than what you NEED in this area.

    The rates for an E9 are $1635 and $1230. For an O3 $1578 and $1236. For an O7 $1932 and $1611.

    We've already proven that higher ranking people don't NEED a better house than lower ranking. Just look at base housing. If you move in as an E7 you get the same house that the E3 next door gets. If we want o save money let's give everyone the same BAH rate. Does that sound good, Generals?
    I can agree to that...

    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    Not sure about that comparison. I was always under the impression BAS was about food for the service member only was never intended to feed the family of the service member. I know that's not how it works in a practical sense, but that was the intent. One is either on BAS or has a meal card. Someone let me know if this is incorrect.
    Nope you are correct. BAS is supposed to feed the SERVICE member, so why is it as one increases in rank it goes up??

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    That's why they get paid more base pay. Nobody should be expected to live in the ghetto. The BAH should cover enough for a two bedroom house in a "safe" neighborhood. You want more rooms, or a better neighborhood? Come out of pocket...SNCOs make plenty of money in order to have a better home in a better neighborhood. That's one of the benefits of getting promoted, as it is in any job.
    Major agreement there. BAS/BAH should be set at a livable minimum regardless of rank/marital status.. You want more, use your BASE pay to cover the differences...

    And do you ever notice, damn near EVERY base i have been at, right outside the gate IS the 'ghetto" in practically all cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You would actually need bigger payraises in the base pay to make those promotions worth it. However, that's not going to happen. The reason why a good chunk of the payraise is on the BAH side in the first place is because BAH is not calculated into retirement. Otherwise, there'd be no need for BAH, and it would be aborbed into base pay.
    Plus iirc one of the main reasons, was so to 'seem family friendly, to those who get married/have kids'..
    Also its not taxed.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Nope you are correct. BAS is supposed to feed the SERVICE member, so why is it as one increases in rank it goes up??.
    BAS is a flat rate for enlisted and officers:

    Officers $253.63
    Enlisted $368.29
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  9. #29
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Yeah ... and I don't know a good way to put this without sounding like I am bashing / hating on the Air Force ... so here goes: I have been in the Marine Corps and the Navy, and worked heavily with the Army; admittedly my exposure to the Air Force is limited to a couple of schools, living in the SP barracks on Fairchild AFB for a year and a couple of deployments to AUAB and Incirlik. The Air Force culture is very different to that of the other services. Not saying it is right or wrong etc. but it is really different and I am pretty glad that I went the route that I did.
    Don't be afraid to say it. The AF culture is VERY different. It's supposed to be different. We are proud that it's different and us old timers hate the fact that the AF is trying NOT to be different. Pre 9-11 the AF was a joke when it came to fitness and we embraced that. We used our quality of living as a badge of honor. Then, post-9-11, the "officers" decided that he needed to prove we could hang with everyone else and, other than a couple combat career fields in the AF, we can't.

    We want the other services to hate on us...well...we used to anyway. So feel free. Because we'll enjoy your hate from the comfort of our air conditioning and individual showers, with 4 people per tent.

  10. #30
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Don't be afraid to say it. The AF culture is VERY different. It's supposed to be different. We are proud that it's different and us old timers hate the fact that the AF is trying NOT to be different. Pre 9-11 the AF was a joke when it came to fitness and we embraced that. We used our quality of living as a badge of honor. Then, post-9-11, the "officers" decided that he needed to prove we could hang with everyone else and, other than a couple combat career fields in the AF, we can't.

    We want the other services to hate on us...well...we used to anyway. So feel free. Because we'll enjoy your hate from the comfort of our air conditioning and individual showers, with 4 people per tent.
    If that is what works for you ... so be it.

    And if I have been in the military since before you enlisted ... am I an old timer as well?
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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