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Thread: U.S. Navy rebukes Iran after propaganda video shows sailor crying

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    This whole thing stinks to high heaven. From the get go we were told everything from it was dual Mechanical failures, then dual commo failures, then dual GPS failures, Then someone fucked up loading the GPS, then they just plain got lost.

    Whether or not they were hacked or it really was the perfect storm of Murphy's law in a Persian Gulf version of the Bermuda triangle, we can't be allowed to know..... But, What's more troubling is that the Obama cock gobbling administration were publically praising the peace loving, benevolent Ayatollahs for releasing them .....EVEN as the Iranians were already posting propaganda pics of the "capture"!

    My guess is that the Sailor in question had to have spoken with his chain of command or (even at the State Dept itself) that told him to go ahead and submit to being used in a propaganda video and gotten himself confused..... It's Either that or They SERIOUSLY need some more training ......

    John Paul Jones must be rolling over in his grave!
    I agree, that something smells rotten about this whole incident, and someone high up must have told them to 'stand down' and be used in those propaganda videos.. "Just cause the Iran deal was too important to derail or something like that."

  2. #12
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    This has to be the greatest thing I've ever heard here...LMFAO!!! You can't make this shit up.
    Ok... Maybe I went a little overboard on that one. I did get a kick out of your reply though!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what kind of training these guys go through? Because Anybody, that's even completed a basic level resistance training course knows better than to willingly submit to being used in Propaganda video unless you're under extreme duress.

    That's why I think someone (in the state dept or their chain) had to have told them to go ahead with the video apology.

    Maybe the Iranians in fact had a gun pointed to someone's head off camera? But, I doubt it because, If so, where in the hell is the Oblamo administration on this? All we've had is a couple of milquetoast objection and no real consequences for them publicly humiliating our Sailors like that.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 02-12-2016 at 04:43 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Well said Rainmaker! I agree, there may be more to this than is being released but it sure makes our military look weak!

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    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
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    OK, that is enough. This has to stop. Now.

    SeaLawyer, you have around here enough to know that this kind of trash talking is way beyond the pale.

    Rusty,you have been tossed into the ban bin more that once. Chill dude. I know how someone coming into here and starting off, almost from the start, with insults, gets to all of us.

    If either of you continue with the attacks, you will be banned.

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    Last edited by UncaRastus; 02-12-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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  6. #16
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    Rusty, see my post above your last one, please.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member SeaLawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    OK, that is enough. This has to stop. Now.

    SeaLawyer, you have around here enough to know that this kind of trash talking is way beyond the pale.

    Rusty,you have been tossed into the ban bin more that once. Chill dude. I know how someone coming into here and starting off, almost from the start, with insults, gets to all of us.

    If either of you continue with the attacks, you will be banned.

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    Fair enough UncaRastus! As mentioned, this whole thread was just my opinion!

  8. #18
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Does anyone know what kind of training these guys go through? Because Anybody, that's even completed a basic level resistance training course knows better than to willingly submit to being used in Propaganda video unless you're under extreme duress.

    That's why I think someone (in the state dept or their chain) had to have told them to go ahead with the video apology.

    Maybe the Iranians in fact had a gun pointed to someone's head off camera? But, I doubt it because, If so, where in the hell is the Oblamo administration on this? All we've had is a couple of milquetoast objection and no real consequences for them publicly humiliating our Sailors like that.
    Some of the Sailors that were on the craft were Special Warfare Combatant Crewmen (SWCC), meaning they are trained in supporting Naval Special Warfare (SeALs). They are not special operators, SeALs, or some 'special fighting force' type folks. Some of the Sailors were augmentees, so basically a Sailor who was there supporting the Sailors supporting the NSW forces (even less special mission training).

    As far as training, contrary to the OP, only some SWCC personnel attend SERE 100 (Code of Conduct A) training, however ... the vast majority do not (75%). That being said, much of SERE 100 was not applicable in this case, there is a course (SERE 220 -- Code of Conduct C) which would have covered the situation these Sailors found themselves in.

    SERE 100: Wartime detention
    SERE 220: Peace Time detention

    The big difference is that in wartime detention, you are expected to get the crap kicked out of you, in peacetime detention you are trained for a situation like this (peacetime detention by a nation that we are not in a shooting war with but have hostile relations). Very few personnel attend SERE 220, most SeALs don't go and it normally applies to crews for special mission aircraft and those types of roles (which is why I got to go).

    I don't think it likely that someone instructed the Sailors anything while in detention, the lines of communication were not there.

    Unfortunately, this seems to be a situation were we (the US, US Navy specifically) screwed up:

    1. We were in Iranian territorial waters; absolutely.
    2. The personnel on the craft if anything had SERE 100 vice SERE 220 training. Being familiar with SWCC, it the average is about 25% that get SERE 100 ...

    As much as I don't like the optic from the videos, the OIC had very little he could have done:

    1. Resist boarders - we were in their territorial waters; for whatever reason ... were were not where we were supposed to be. Getting into a shooting match in that situation only makes the situation worse.

    2. Run - As fast as those two boats are, they are not going to outrun small arms or machine gun fire from the (at least) four Iranian boats on site. Even with a 2 to 1 force on force ratio (20 to 10 etc.) If the Iranians killed 1 US Sailor and lost 15, that is a PR victory for them ... bigger than they already had.

    3. Start shooting - From a strategic standpoint, resisting when we were on the wrong side of the line on the chart is bad. Fifth Fleet, the Arabian Gulf has a lot of ROE dealing with Iranian territorial waters (you actually go through them when transiting the Strait of Hormuz). NWP 1-14M (Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations) covers some of this, UNCLOS does too and standing C5F guidance stresses the importance of not escalating a situation unnecessarily in the AOR; once we realized we were in their TTW, would almost anything escalates the situation ... it was a lose - lose for us as soon as we gooned up the navigation.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 02-12-2016 at 08:27 PM.
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  9. #19
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Looks like this thread was seriously derailed by some immature back and forth.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Looks like this thread was seriously derailed by some immature back and forth.

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