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Thread: Progressive Parents Refuse To Tell Child Its Sex (Onion Article)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    My daughter is all about letting her baby deciding which way he is going to go. She frowned the first time I went up to be with them, and complained about the color of the clothes that I brought for him to wear.

    It has been about 1 1/2 years since that thing came up. She has bought him a lot of clothes. Almost all of the clothing, it seems, either comes in pink or blue.

    Yeah, my grandson Vince wears boy clothes, after all!

    Christine brings him to babysitters that are Mennonites. It seems pretty funny when he starts raising hell, and he doesn't listen to either Christine, or my wife Angie, but when I tell him 'No", or 'Stop it', or "Vince, quit crying. Real men don't cry,', and it's as if magic just happened. Because he respects male authority. He listens to what I say, and he does what I tell him to do.

    Christine should have been a bit more choosy when she picked out the babysitters, if she wanted Vince to not be thinking that he is a boy. Oh, he just listens when men speak? Hmmm ...

    About a month ago, this cute little Mennonite girl came over for a playdate. Yeah, I know. Playdates at 16 months???

    She had a doll, which Vince grabbed. He took his largest toy truck, and after placing the doll on the ground, he kept on running over that doll. Time and again.

    Christine has bought him a bunch of neutral toys. I bought him a bunch of boy toys. Christine tried to give him some girl toys.

    With no pressure from me, he picks the boy toys 60% of the time, the other 40% being the neutral toys. Blocks and stuff being the neutral toys.

    The girl toys have been untouched. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    The first word that he learned? Not mama. It was papa. When he was about 6 months old. Why? Not sure, but he seems to want Christine to bring a man into their lives.

    Another thing. Christine believes in co sleeping with Vince. That is, until one morning she found her right nipple almost bitten through.

    Nice wake up, eh!

    Now she finally has a boyfriend. Vince and him have become almost inseparable.

    How does she raise Vince? Without much negative happening to Vince, if he does something wrong. Or she was raising Vince that way. Until Christine woke him up, and he lay there for a couple of seconds, and then he punched her in the eye, because he didn't want to be awakened.

    Now? He gets his bottom swatted, now and then, when he does something wrong.

    He has learned to flirt with little girls. Not boys. He learned how to fist bump from me, last Christmas, and that is what he does with boys.

    Without any instruction on whom to flirt with, and whom to fist bump with.

    Well, he did run up to the TV, and tried to fist bump with Elmo, all afternoon, the first day that he knew how to do a fist bump.

    I suppose the best way to raise kids is to let nature have its way. Everything will work out.

    Next Christmas, I am thinking about getting Vince a Daisy BB gun. I think that he will be a little bit too young to be getting his first shotgun.
    What are you trying to get at here? So she gave him neutral toys and he ended up gravitating toward "boy" toys? So what? Playing with certain toys does not determine someone sexuality or if they are transgender or not.

    I am the only girl out of five kids. I was raised by boys. I played with my brother's toys and I played with Barbies and crap like that. Did that mean anything? No. I've always been attracted to males. I have never been attracted to females but I was a huge tomboy growing up because I had little female influence. Did that mean I didn't know how to "act" like a girl? No. I just wasn't and still am not very feminine. That's all.

    If I had a son, I would let him play with dolls or whatever toys he wanted to play with. I have gotten my daughter toy cars and baby dolls or "girl" toys. She plays with both.

    What is wrong if a boy plays with dolls? Wouldn't you want to see that your son can be capable of being a nurturing and caring father someday? Wouldn't you want your daughter to marry or have children with that guy who is not a complete asshole?

    When it comes to flirting - what does that prove? My daughter has been a flirt since she was six months old and does seem to flirt with male doctors and seems to really like the male nurse at her doctor's office. And? So what? She's 20 months old - she doesn't even know what she's doing probably and has no concept of sexual activity or sexuality. Neither does your grandson.

    My daughter's cousin is 4 - youngest and only boy out of four kids. He plays video games and trucks but he also watches Barbie and plays with his sisters with their toys. So fucking what? Means nothing about his sexuality or gender identity.

    If someone raises their kid gender neutral who cares? Does it affect you? No. One of my brothers came out as homosexual at 19. I had no idea. He hid it pretty well but he said he's known since he was five years old. Did that change who he is? Hell no - he's still got the same personality he did before. He's still the same person. So he likes dudes...oh well. He's still my brother. And he didn't "learn" it anywhere because we grew up in a extremely conservative state, super small town, no known gay people lived there and there weren't homosexual characters on TV regularly.

    My youngest brother used to always want my mom to put polish on his toes. He's married with a kid and another on the way. That didn't mean anything. Some kids are just curious and will explore things. Oh well.

    I don't know why anyone is hung up on gender or what's "girl" toys or "boy" toys or clothes or whatever.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    I don't know why anyone is hung up on gender or what's "girl" toys or "boy" toys or clothes or whatever.
    This is very progressive of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    This is very progressive of you.
    I'm not trying nor see myself as progressive. That's just how I feel. I guess I was just raised that gender wasn't important. My dad raised us all as people, not based on our gender. He didn't favor any one of us over the other. If he did, it was not obvious. If we could prove we were responsible and mature, then we got to do more stuff. He didn't let me do more or less because I was the only girl. My oldest brother was always in trouble because he was immature. I and the other older brother got to do more because we showed our dad we could handle things. The younger two - by then he was tired and working two jobs and just let a lot go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    I'm not trying nor see myself as progressive. That's just how I feel. I guess I was just raised that gender wasn't important. My dad raised us all as people, not based on our gender.
    How unfortunate for you. Never got to be "daddy's little girl".

    He didn't favor any one of us over the other.
    Neither did mine. There was no favoritism, but we were raised differently.

    If he did, it was not obvious. If we could prove we were responsible and mature, then we got to do more stuff. He didn't let me do more or less because I was the only girl. My oldest brother was always in trouble because he was immature. I and the other older brother got to do more because we showed our dad we could handle things. The younger two - by then he was tired and working two jobs and just let a lot go.
    I don't understand the relevance of this paragraph, but ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    How unfortunate for you. Never got to be "daddy's little girl".

    Neither did mine. There was no favoritism, but we were raised differently.

    I don't understand the relevance of this paragraph, but ok.
    I didn't want to be "daddy's little girl." I'm sure I was as I am the only girl but he never said "No you can't do this or that it's for boys." My grandpa did. He ran a farm that was in my dad's family for 150+ years. I wanted to ride the tractor - he said no "you'll get dirty go help your grandma" but took my brothers. That pissed me off. I always was playing in the dirt.

    That last paragraph was to show that he didn't favor one over the other. He allowed us freedom based on our level of responsibility.

    I'm sorry you can't comprehend that I'm saying I'm not progressive. I was raised the same as my brothers and never once did gender come up in anything in my childhood. So I'm not seeing how I'm "progressive" when that's just normal to me to not see why there are "boy" or "girl" toys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    I'm sorry you can't comprehend that I'm saying I'm not progressive. I was raised the same as my brothers and never once did gender come up in anything in my childhood. So I'm not seeing how I'm "progressive" when that's just normal to me to not see why there are "boy" or "girl" toys.
    I'm sorry, but what you're saying here is exactly what "progressive" means. For the rest of the world, there are girls toys and boys toys, girls colors and boys colors, etc. Doesn't mean that there isn't crossover, but the only time a boy should be playing with a Barbie is if GI Joe has that Barbie bent over the hood of her Corvette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I'm sorry, but what you're saying here is exactly what "progressive" means. For the rest of the world, there are girls toys and boys toys, girls colors and boys colors, etc. Doesn't mean that there isn't crossover, but the only time a boy should be playing with a Barbie is if GI Joe has that Barbie bent over the hood of her Corvette.
    You realize that through early 20th century pink was a "boy" color right? So colors for "identifying' children change consistently. Toys to "identify" children change consistently also. Pink was seen to be a better color for boys and blue better for girls. Pink was a "more decided and stronger color" and more suitable for boys while blue was seen as "more delicate and dainty and prettier for a girl." It was seen that pink was closer to red and therefore more appropriate for boys because red is "fierce" but blue was associated with girls because the Virgin Mary is seen depicted as wearing blue. It wasn't until the 1940s when the colors switched genders. All due to manufacturers deciding this in order to get more sales really.


    Also fashion changes consistently. Men wore high heels before women did. They weren't designed for walking in originally. They were designed as riding footwear. It was essential to Persian fighting styles. The heel helped secure the stance in the stirrups - and this was essential for soldiers. After the first Persian diplomatic mission to Europe - all things Persian were of interest in western Europe. The high heel was created by men for men. Men wore wigs (even our great Founders did and wore heels). Men have worn dresses throughout history. All these men were considered masculine at their time. So to determine what clothes or toys or colors are "masculine" or "feminine" - there are none. They constantly change.

    If I had a son I wouldn't mind if he played with baby dolls or Barbies. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything. Actually if a boy is taking care of a baby doll it could show he has nurturing qualities and will make a great dad. I would much rather that than some little pervert using toys to molest each other. Plus that just goes to show how he might treat women when he's older - as nothing more than objects.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    If I had a son I wouldn't mind if he played with baby dolls or Barbies. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything. Actually if a boy is taking care of a baby doll it could show he has nurturing qualities and will make a great dad.
    Again, this is a very "progressive" statement.

    I'd love to see the look on your face if you walked into the house of some guy your dating and he had teddy bears all over his bed and pictures of princesses on the wall. I'm sure you'd change your tune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks82 View Post
    If I had a son I wouldn't mind if he played with baby dolls or Barbies. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything. Actually if a boy is taking care of a baby doll it could show he has nurturing qualities and will make a great dad.
    Again, this is a very "progressive" statement.

    I'd love to see the look on your face if you walked into the house of some guy your dating and he had teddy bears all over his bed and pictures of princesses on the wall. I'm sure you'd change your tune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Again, this is a very "progressive" statement.

    I'd love to see the look on your face if you walked into the house of some guy your dating and he had teddy bears all over his bed and pictures of princesses on the wall. I'm sure you'd change your tune.
    Not really. So was it progressive when women started to wear high heels and wigs? Was it progressive when manufacturers changed the color scheme of baby clothes? Smh.

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