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Thread: SecNav now calling for coed training at bootcamp

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    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
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    SecNav now calling for coed training at bootcamp

    Ray Mabus is determined to have all of the Marines to be trained at the same level. I was a DI. I know that the women in the USMC can not perform as well as the men in physical training. Will this mean that the standards must be brought down to accommodate female recruits?

    Marine Corps boot camp, job titles to be gender neutral by April

    http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/stor...pril/78351756/

    From the article, Marine Corps Times:

    'The Marine Corps has been ordered to come up with a plan to make its enlisted entry-level training coed, and to make its job titles more gender-neutral following the recent move to open all military combat roles to women.

    In a Jan. 1 memo to Marine Commandant Gen. Robert Neller, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus requested a "detailed plan" on how the service will fully integrate its boot camp and Officer Candidate School. The plan is due Jan. 15 and will be implemented by April 1, the memo states.

    "The Department of the Navy's implementation plan must include gender integration of Marine Corps enlisted recruit training and officer candidate school," Mabus wrote. "In this submission, identify where, if anywhere, this training is already integrated, where it is separate, and specific steps that you will take to fully integrate these trainings."

    In a second memo from Mabus to Neller on the same day, the SecNav directed the Marine Corps to conduct a full review of its military occupational specialty titles in an effort to ensure that they are gender neutral.'
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    From what I understand, boot camp is to be integrated but men and women will still retain separate standards where appropriate (PFT for example). Integrated (coed) platoons won't be overly hard to manage but you will no longer have the entire platoon in the same squad bay.

    I don't know if this will mean that MCRD San Diego will begin receiving female recruits and DI's or not.

    Also, from the article that I see some people on social media already don't understand:

    A Navy official said that the service received a similar memo pertaining to its MOS titles and descriptions. Mabus doesn't intend to require iconic titles like "infantryman," "rifleman" or "midshipman" to be changed ...
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    So does this mean we get that 'co-ed shower scene we saw in Starship troopers"???

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    So does this mean we get that 'co-ed shower scene we saw in Starship troopers"???
    I figure one day ... way way way ... way in the future ...

    Until then ... it is more likely to be something a bit more terrifying

    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    I figure one day ... way way way ... way in the future ...

    Until then ... it is more likely to be something a bit more terrifying

    When I was a MEPS Classifier in the Navy, the processors used to hate me for giving all of the male DEPpers a Thursday shipping date.

    Why did I do it? Because females could only ship M to W, so males who shipped on Thursdays were put in all-male divisions.

    That's what I believed in.

    In a co-ed environment, you can only push everyone as hard as you can push the females. Furthermore... the males won't get the profanity laced sexuality explicit verbal beatdowns that they can only get when there are no females around.

    Doing this to the Marine Corps is just... interesting, to say the least.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    When I was a MEPS Classifier in the Navy, the processors used to hate me for giving all of the male DEPpers a Thursday shipping date.

    Why did I do it? Because females could only ship M to W, so males who shipped on Thursdays were put in all-male divisions.

    That's what I believed in.

    In a co-ed environment, you can only push everyone as hard as you can push the females. Furthermore... the males won't get the profanity laced sexuality explicit verbal beatdowns that they can only get when there are no females around.

    Doing this to the Marine Corps is just... interesting, to say the least.
    There is legit concern that some training (group PT) may suffer; you can only run the group to build cohesion as fast as the slowest person will allow (a long time ago I had a Plt Sgt explain that group PT isn't really meant as PT improvement but esprit d'corps events.) In Boot Camp & in the FMF, most of our PT improvement training came by breaking the unit (plt, company, BN whatever) into ability groups based on previous run times and then the person leading that group pushed them a bit more than they were comfortable ... but there is little improvement in a 3 mile run at a 6 min / mile pace for someone who can't sustain that pace for more than a couple hundred yards ... and no more training value in running a 10 min mile pace for those who already run at a 7 min pace.

    As far as the profanity laced sexually explicit verbal beatdowns, my boot camp platoon had 3 Drill Instructors. The most junior of the three was the 'heavy' (always the bad guy.) Come to find out near the end of recruit training that he was a hard corps Mormon ... then realizing that he never really did use profanity ... just had a penchant for being able to yell and berate minus profanity and sexual comments ... eye opener. At OCS there was also one DI that I picked up on never using profanity etc. Turns out he was born again Christian. I still graduated as a Marine, was a fairly successful one and have had a good run as an officer ... so I don't think the training is necessarily going to suffer just because folks who were already making comments that are unprofessional may now have to tighten that stuff up even more because of a coed training environment.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    There is legit concern that some training (group PT) may suffer; you can only run the group to build cohesion as fast as the slowest person will allow (a long time ago I had a Plt Sgt explain that group PT isn't really meant as PT improvement but esprit d'corps events.) In Boot Camp & in the FMF, most of our PT improvement training came by breaking the unit (plt, company, BN whatever) into ability groups based on previous run times and then the person leading that group pushed them a bit more than they were comfortable ... but there is little improvement in a 3 mile run at a 6 min / mile pace for someone who can't sustain that pace for more than a couple hundred yards ... and no more training value in running a 10 min mile pace for those who already run at a 7 min pace.

    As far as the profanity laced sexually explicit verbal beatdowns, my boot camp platoon had 3 Drill Instructors. The most junior of the three was the 'heavy' (always the bad guy.) Come to find out near the end of recruit training that he was a hard corps Mormon ... then realizing that he never really did use profanity ... just had a penchant for being able to yell and berate minus profanity and sexual comments ... eye opener. At OCS there was also one DI that I picked up on never using profanity etc. Turns out he was born again Christian. I still graduated as a Marine, was a fairly successful one and have had a good run as an officer ... so I don't think the training is necessarily going to suffer just because folks who were already making comments that are unprofessional may now have to tighten that stuff up even more because of a coed training environment.
    I actually saw the difference first hand. I was in all male division, as I shipped out on a Thursday myself. There were still females in the same building. Our brother division (or was it called "sister" division, I can't remember) was also all male... but they did have one female RDC (they also had an RDC who was a "can't get right" shitbag). The verbal beatdowns that they got were nowhere near as "colorful" as the ones we got.

    I remember during service week, where different divisions work together... I was cranking at the galley and, of course, there were females there. I'm far from "player of the year" with the ladies, but I can hold my own... and I recall two different females that I struck up lengthy conversations with and stayed close to at different points during service week; which isn't bad in my case... BUT...

    The presence of females, from what I've seen, leads to bullying among males. Males trying to flaunt some "alpha" status in front of the females, or males in leadership positions assigning duties to less assertive males that put them further away from him and the females. Things like that. Thankfully, no one from my division was guilty of that; nor did they allow themselves to become victims of that - and I think that it's because of the cohesion that we built during the first half of boot camp before we got to service week.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 01-08-2016 at 04:38 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I actually saw the difference first hand.
    Reality doesn't matter. Everyone knows, That This in no way makes the USMC Stronger.

    Whether it's through malice or negligence, It's clear that these treasonous fucks in .gov know that their time is short, so they're trying to inflict as much Lesbian Feminist agenda-driven damage onto the United States Citizenry as possible

    SOF and the USMC were the last bastions of the culture of honor remaining in the DoD and the complete lack of opposition to this insanity, by their Senior "Leadership" proves that the Pussification of the US Military is now complete.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-08-2016 at 08:31 PM.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Here's the other thing I'm worried about: aren't you supposed to FEAR your DIs? Isn't that the point?

    Going back when I went through boot camp - again, I was in an all male division and all three of my RDCs were male - I remember the times when I got my ass reamed by the female RDC from the brother division, or various times here and there where I ran into female RDC who had something to say about what I was doing or not doing.

    I even got my ass reamed by butch-looking female BMC with a high & tight, I shit you not.

    Was I intimidated by any of them? Hell. Fucking. No. I obeyed them because I HAD to, not because I feared them.

    I don't think that's what it should be like.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Here's the other thing I'm worried about: aren't you supposed to FEAR your DIs? Isn't that the point?

    Going back when I went through boot camp - again, I was in an all male division and all three of my RDCs were male - I remember the times when I got my ass reamed by the female RDC from the brother division, or various times here and there where I ran into female RDC who had something to say about what I was doing or not doing.

    I even got my ass reamed by butch-looking female BMC with a high & tight, I shit you not.

    Was I intimidated by any of them? Hell. Fucking. No. I obeyed them because I HAD to, not because I feared them.

    I don't think that's what it should be like.

    True story Rusty...... I was in the last all male basic traing squadron at Lackland in 1988 and had KP duty over in a coed squadron.

    I hadn't seen a female in weeks and spent the whole detail scrubbing pots and pans with a raging boner.

    I Came out of the detail without my cover on and some little 5'2" TI chick ran up screaming and cursing and started brow beating my nipples.

    I guess I was smirking, which only further infuriated her and she threatened to "Kick my ass", at which point I lost my bearing and my smirk became an obvious grin...... then she yelled "YOU don't think I could do it. Do you??!!" and stormed off.

    It's too hard for an 18 year old to take them seriously.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-09-2016 at 02:57 PM.

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