Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24

Thread: SecNav now calling for coed training at bootcamp

  1. #11
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Here's the other thing I'm worried about: aren't you supposed to FEAR your DIs? Isn't that the point?
    Actually no. I think initially many people are afraid of them since they yell at you more than anyone has (probably) in your life. You are supposed to respect them. They are supposed to emulate all that is military discipline and bearing. But no, you are not supposed to fear them. Many people confuse leadership with fear etc.

    The USMC Drill Instructor's Creed:

    "These recruits are entrusted to my care. I will train them to the best of my ability. I will develop them into smartly disciplined, physically fit, basically trained Marines, thoroughly indoctrinated in love of the Corps and country. I will demand of them and demonstrate by my own example, the highest standards of personal conduct, morality and professional skill."
    Nothing about leading via fear, intimidation or abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Going back when I went through boot camp - again, I was in an all male division and all three of my RDCs were male - I remember the times when I got my ass reamed by the female RDC from the brother division, or various times here and there where I ran into female RDC who had something to say about what I was doing or not doing.

    I even got my ass reamed by butch-looking female BMC with a high & tight, I shit you not.

    Was I intimidated by any of them? Hell. Fucking. No. I obeyed them because I HAD to, not because I feared them.

    I don't think that's what it should be like.
    You aren't supposed to obey orders out of fear. You are supposed to obey orders because of military discipline. Usually people who resort to that don't know any other way. The instillation of fear can be effective, but (IMO) only very short term.

    I hear a lot of stories about the fear aspect of military leadership. Ironically, I spent 12 years in the infantry & reconnaissance and never encountered that technique. I don't hear too many operators who have had that technique used on them outside of very specific situations; you just can't build a professional using that technique ... it almost always builds resentment and then people try to mimic it when they are put in charge. The by-product of that is people remember things with bias and end up being a bigger ass to their subordinates than they were treated and the cycle goes on for a couple 'generations' of 'leaders' and eventually you end up with a butt-ton of shitty folks in senior positions who cannot actually lead.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 01-08-2016 at 11:03 PM.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  2. #12
    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    MTF-HQ
    Posts
    1,196
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    Third attempt. My laptop keeps on making my posting disappear.

    To keep it short, the recruits were put through an existence which is just short of being hell. The DIs, from when I was one, were instructed to put every recruit through as much stress as could be supplied, short of being in combat.

    They were able to instantly follow orders, without thinking about some way to get out of following that order.

    I was the Heavy DI for the whole time that I was a DI, at PI, because I was very good at being the heavy.

    I never once struck a recruit. However, I did see a senior DI smack one down.

    I have talked to many retired Marines, as well as those that did their first enlistment, then got out. They all say that boot camp hasn't changed from when I was a DI.

    It's 40 years since I was a DI. I am sure that some things have changed. On the other hand, no matter how much time has gone by, some things remain the same.

    One thing that I have noticed, when I visited PI a few years ago, was that the sign on the Reception Barracks had disappeared.

    "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here'.

    I guess someone didn't like to be reading Dante.
    Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die, into the valley of spam, rode the Super Moderators

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    249
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    I really can't speak for USMC, I was AF, but to me this fear was more a fear of failure. Did I ever see a TI (AF for DI) cross the line? Nothing physical but I did see at least one that was emotionally traumatized to the point of breaking.

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    249
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    Third attempt. My laptop keeps on making my posting disappear.

    To keep it short, the recruits were put through an existence which is just short of being hell. The DIs, from when I was one, were instructed to put every recruit through as much stress as could be supplied, short of being in combat.

    They were able to instantly follow orders, without thinking about some way to get out of following that order.

    I was the Heavy DI for the whole time that I was a DI, at PI, because I was very good at being the heavy.

    I never once struck a recruit. However, I did see a senior DI smack one down.

    I have talked to many retired Marines, as well as those that did their first enlistment, then got out. They all say that boot camp hasn't changed from when I was a DI.

    It's 40 years since I was a DI. I am sure that some things have changed. On the other hand, no matter how much time has gone by, some things remain the same.

    One thing that I have noticed, when I visited PI a few years ago, was that the sign on the Reception Barracks had disappeared.

    "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here'.

    I guess someone didn't like to be reading Dante.
    Unca, Super Moderator, a heavy? C'mon. Is there still a Mare Island? My dad went through there in 1915.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,883
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    Unca, Super Moderator, a heavy? C'mon. Is there still a Mare Island? My dad went through there in 1915.
    1915?! Wow!
    Was he at the battle of belleau wood with unca rasta too?

  6. #16
    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    MTF-HQ
    Posts
    1,196
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    Mare island, which was used as a Navy shipyard headquarters for Marine Security Forces Pacific and as a Marine barracks, as well as boot camp, was closed as a military installation in 1996.

    It was used, prior to San Diego opening for the new location for training Marines, as boot camp as well as another recruit training base up in the Puget Sound area. The recruits were relocated to San Diego, in 1923.

    Mare Island was sold to private enterprises, and it is being built up as another housing area, probably for the more well-to-do.

    North Island was utilized also. And so on.
    Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die, into the valley of spam, rode the Super Moderators

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    249
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    1915?! Wow!
    Was he at the battle of belleau wood with unca rasta too?
    He served aboard the cruiser USS Brooklyn, flagship for the Pacific Fleet. He was at Vladivostok during the Bolshevik revolution. I've seen several references to that on this forum lately.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,883
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by retiredAFcivvy View Post
    He served aboard the cruiser USS Brooklyn, flagship for the Pacific Fleet. He was at Vladivostok during the Bolshevik revolution. I've seen several references to that on this forum lately.
    Man you two guys have probably made more trips around the sun than the rest of us wipper snappers put together!

  9. #19
    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    MTF-HQ
    Posts
    1,196
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    I was a Marine when we were still used as marksmen from the fighting tops on the sailing crafts of old. Now, finally, with an old back injury devolving into my spine having bulging discs throughout the entire lumbar section, and a sacral disk being bulged, then being torn, I am off to see a neurosurgeon at the University Hospital in Columbia, MO, next month.

    I should have called for another Marine to help me support the mainmast while serving on the old Conny, so called by those who sailed on the USS Constitution, which came crashing down.

    You know. Young guys think that they can do anything.

    There is a bright spot, to having my back surgerized. I will be the proud owner of a mobility scooter, complete with a cammo paint job, a left blinker which will be activated at all times, a top speed of 15mph, head and tail lights, and a sound system, from which I will constantly play 'Ride of the Valkyries'.

    Did I mention that it comes with a .50 cal machine gun mount, and an automatic grenade launcher? If I want to use the optional gatling gun, the run time will be cut down from 40 to 25 miles, between charges.

    my scooter.jpg
    Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die, into the valley of spam, rode the Super Moderators

  10. #20
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,883
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    So exactly who is "Mabus" to undo 240 years of Marine Corps tradition? Inquiring minds want to know

    http://www.nostradamus.org/mabus.html
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-11-2016 at 02:34 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •