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Thread: Faith: Vice or Virtue?

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Faith: Vice or Virtue?

    Agree with someone who has authority...be it in govt., the military, some celebrity, whoever...and you'll immediately be derided as "sheep" or "sheeple".."blindly following..." Not a compliment. Obviously, something no one wants to do.

    But, Faith, Hope Love...the greatest of these is Love...is supposedly a biblical virtue.

    Only when you have Faith in the correct thing, I suppose...which by very definition is believing in something or someone without necessarily the reason or proof to do so.

    Isn't it odd...the system of salvation is based on you believing in something when, by definition, you have no proof or reason to do so...In fact, the more simple and childlike your faith is, the greater the virtue.

    If you had good reason to believe, it's no longer faith...for even the demons believe and shutter.

    Yet...the same people who supposedly base their worldview on Faith, Hope, Love, these three...will be the first to criticize "blind faith"

    So, is faith only a virtue when you happen to pick the right thing to have faith in...with no reason whatsoever for picking it?

    Is tending toward faith as a general characteristic a vice or a virtue?

    Can anyone clear this up?
    Last edited by Bos Mutus; 12-29-2015 at 10:40 PM.
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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post

    Can anyone clear this up?


    When the personification of reason (pilate) asks the personification of truth (Christ) "what is truth?". He doesn't answer him.

    Because the Truth doesn't answer to reason.

    If you will not hear the Truth, no one can tell you.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 12-30-2015 at 03:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    When the personification of reason (pilate) asks the personification of truth (Christ) "what is truth?". He doesn't answer him.

    Because the Truth doesn't answer to reason.

    If you will not hear the Truth, no one can tell you.
    Your "Truth" does not answer to reason becasue it is imaginary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Agree with someone who has authority...be it in govt., the military, some celebrity, whoever...and you'll immediately be derided as "sheep" or "sheeple".."blindly following..." Not a compliment. Obviously, something no one wants to do.

    But, Faith, Hope Love...the greatest of these is Love...is supposedly a biblical virtue.

    Only when you have Faith in the correct thing, I suppose...which by very definition is believing in something or someone without necessarily the reason or proof to do so.

    Isn't it odd...the system of salvation is based on you believing in something when, by definition, you have no proof or reason to do so...In fact, the more simple and childlike your faith is, the greater the virtue.

    If you had good reason to believe, it's no longer faith...for even the demons believe and shutter.

    Yet...the same people who supposedly base their worldview on Faith, Hope, Love, these three...will be the first to criticize "blind faith"

    So, is faith only a virtue when you happen to pick the right thing to have faith in...with no reason whatsoever for picking it?

    Is tending toward faith as a general characteristic a vice or a virtue?

    Can anyone clear this up?
    In the hopes that I'm understanding you correctly, you want to know whether or not Faith is a virtue or a vice. I'd have to say it's a virtue because it is a positive thing. A vice is not considered positive.

    Faith is positive because it motivates us to do something. Generally it is associated with religion and/or religious people, but it doesn't have to be confined to that only. Faith is an action word in that it motivates behavior. For example, you have faith that your employer will pay you if you perform work for him/her. So you have faith that he will indeed do as he says and you do X. Your faith that you will actually get paid is what motivates you to do the work. When you receive your paycheck your faith is rewarded (so to speak) and it becomes stronger in the fact that if you do X you get paid for it, by your employer. There is enough evidence in the news (scams, etc.) to know that sometimes being promised one thing and getting it don't always go hand in hand. Therefore, faith is a virtue because it drives you to perform an action to achieve some sort of promised reward (whether it's a paycheck, or internal such as feeling good for doing a good deed.)

    I could go through each part of your post if you want, but I think that covers generally what you're looking for.

    Hope that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Your "Truth" does not answer to reason becasue it is imaginary.
    LOL! In your response to Rainmaker is the same reason Christ didn't respond to Pilate. Christ first went to Pilate, and Pilate couldn't find anything wrong. He knew Christ was innocent of the charges, but he send Christ to Herod hoping that Herod would find/do something about Christ. However, Herod wasn't the final authority and so sent him back to Pilate (again not finding any crime in Christ (i.e. He was innocent). Pilate had already declared that he found no guilt in Christ and so there was nothing to be said, and therefore, He said nothing.

    In your response we find a pre-determined conclusion. You have already closed your mind to the possibility of something greater than yourself and therefore, nothing more needs to be said.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Faith, by its very definition, is synonymous with cognitive dissonance. That makes it a vice.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matai View Post
    In the hopes that I'm understanding you correctly, you want to know whether or not Faith is a virtue or a vice. I'd have to say it's a virtue because it is a positive thing. A vice is not considered positive.

    Faith is positive because it motivates us to do something. Generally it is associated with religion and/or religious people, but it doesn't have to be confined to that only. Faith is an action word in that it motivates behavior. For example, you have faith that your employer will pay you if you perform work for him/her. So you have faith that he will indeed do as he says and you do X. Your faith that you will actually get paid is what motivates you to do the work. When you receive your paycheck your faith is rewarded (so to speak) and it becomes stronger in the fact that if you do X you get paid for it, by your employer. There is enough evidence in the news (scams, etc.) to know that sometimes being promised one thing and getting it don't always go hand in hand. Therefore, faith is a virtue because it drives you to perform an action to achieve some sort of promised reward (whether it's a paycheck, or internal such as feeling good for doing a good deed.)

    I could go through each part of your post if you want, but I think that covers generally what you're looking for.

    Hope that helps.
    ...but, if that employer does scam you...then you are just a sucker, right? Or is having done the work without eventually gaining the promised reward still virtuous?
    The Voice of Reason

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    ...but, if that employer does scam you...then you are just a sucker, right? Or is having done the work without eventually gaining the promised reward still virtuous?
    The Truth's Kingdom is not of this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matai View Post
    LOL! In your response to Rainmaker is the same reason Christ didn't respond to Pilate. Christ first went to Pilate, and Pilate couldn't find anything wrong. He knew Christ was innocent of the charges, but he send Christ to Herod hoping that Herod would find/do something about Christ. However, Herod wasn't the final authority and so sent him back to Pilate (again not finding any crime in Christ (i.e. He was innocent). Pilate had already declared that he found no guilt in Christ and so there was nothing to be said, and therefore, He said nothing.

    In your response we find a pre-determined conclusion. You have already closed your mind to the possibility of something greater than yourself and therefore, nothing more needs to be said.
    It is hard to have a discussion about imaginary characters, There is no evidence of any of the 5000 or so gods that human worship or have worshiped. Provided credible physical evidence , other than the circular reference of the bible, and I will listen, Why do you believe in something that is not supported by evidence? What makes Christ more credible than Shiva?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Faith, by its very definition, is synonymous with cognitive dissonance. That makes it a vice.
    No, it's not. Faith, in the most basic form, is a belief in something that cannot be seen. Cognitive dissonance "is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values." (pulled from Wikipedia - for simplicity sake).

    At best you could say by having Faith you could experience cognitive dissonance. I would disagree, but am willing to discuss with you if you are really inclined. Faith in and of itself doesn't provide contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. I think you disagree with that, but I don't.

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