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Thread: All of the services must allow women into all fields

  1. #91
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    The difference there is "ASVAB scores" shows individual aptitude. If we eliminated people because "A lot of people from Kentucky failed, so we're not taking anyone from Kentucky"...then it's not based on individual.

    I don't know how they select people for the various training, I'm sure they have some kind of pre-screen test...but shouldn't it just be on individual achievement and lack thereof instead of on their demographics and how their group as a whole performs?

    Again, we're at the...if a male fails we say, "there is one weak man"...if a woman fails we say "see, women can't do this."
    As I said, I truly believe it's more of a money thing...which includes logistics. I've never been in combat, but I'd assume that hygiene is pretty difficult to maintain. There are several excuses I could give, I suppose.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    As I said, I truly believe it's more of a money thing...which includes logistics. I've never been in combat, but I'd assume that hygiene is pretty difficult to maintain. There are several excuses I could give, I suppose.
    Logistics and hygience? Oh, all the extra cargo space carrying maxipads into theater?

    I'm sure we could go through the whole litany of excuses...that's how these kinds of discussion on banning whoever usually goes. "Well what about all the breast cancer...did you know women have 98% of all new cases of breast cancer? How will that affect the budget?" blah, blah.

    Seriously...the Marines spent how much studying this to justify their ban...when if they just lifted it, it probably wouldn't have made a difference...

    When I joined the AF, women were banned from USAF Security Forces.
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  3. #93
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Vermont Soldier 1st Woman to Graduate as Combat EngineerCOLCHESTER, Vt. (AP) — A Vermont National Guard soldier is the first woman in the U.S. Army to qualify as a combat engineer.
    Spc. Skylar Anderson,
    of Derry, New Hampshire, says it was a "big eye-opener" when her
    instructors told her over the summer that she was the first woman to
    complete the course allowing her to work alongside combat troops. The
    job can include clearing mine fields, defusing or detonating roadside
    bombs and building or destroying bridges.


    Anderson, a 20-year-old University of Vermont junior, says she hopes she can be a role model for other women in the military.
    The U.S. military has been grappling for years with how best to integrate
    women in the services into combat. On Thursday, Defense Secretary Ash
    Carter ordered the services to open all combat jobs to women.



    http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/56146785-story


    Reckon we'll be seeing a lot of "First this" and "First that"



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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    It costs a lot of money to train people. There are only a certain amount of slots to be filled based on manning levels. If you fill those slots with people who are extremely likely to fail, then it's wasting time and money. It's the reason we have minimum requirements on ASVAB scores for career fields. Is it likely that some of those who scored below the cutoffs could succeed and become outstanding troops/technicians and improve the force as a whole? Absolutely. But it's not worth the cost to take that risk.
    As they do with many difficult courses, run a screening test first. Problem solved.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Logistics and hygience? Oh, all the extra cargo space carrying maxipads into theater?

    I'm sure we could go through the whole litany of excuses...that's how these kinds of discussion on banning whoever usually goes. "Well what about all the breast cancer...did you know women have 98% of all new cases of breast cancer? How will that affect the budget?" blah, blah.

    Seriously...the Marines spent how much studying this to justify their ban...when if they just lifted it, it probably wouldn't have made a difference...

    When I joined the AF, women were banned from USAF Security Forces.
    When I joined they had just lifted the Ban from most Communications 30XXX fields, why that ban was in existence is a mystery.

    I guess folks figure that if they let Women in macho posturing is less effective.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    When I joined they had just lifted the Ban from most Communications 30XXX fields, why that ban was in existence is a mystery.

    I guess folks figure that if they let Women in macho posturing is less effective.
    It's because prior to the establishment of the all male TACP AFSC 275, those duties were performed by 304's Ground Radio many of whom were attached to Combat Units in Vietnam

  7. #97
    Senior Member USN - Retired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I don't really doubt what the SgtMaj says is true...I guess my question would be, though, why is it necessary then to ban women? If they don't make it, they don't make it...and maybe we won't ever have a woman batting 4th for the Yankess...but, maybe batting 8th for the Marlins one day...or kicking for the Buffalo Bills? Maybe never...and if that's the case, why do they need to be banned?
    I am a 52 year old man. The military would never send me through direct combat training (SEAL, Ranger, etc). Why? Because I am too old. The military wouldn't even let a 52 year old man enlist.

    If we're not going to restrict women from entering training for direct combat jobs then why have age limits on persons who enter training for direct combat jobs? Should we let people in their 50's go through SEAL and Ranger training? Perhaps a few old farts like me will make it through the training.

    The military should ban women from those types of training (i.e., SEAL, Ranger, etc) for the same reason that old farts like me ARE banned from those types of training. We're probably not going to make it through the training, and it would be a waste of tax payer money to send us through the training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Again, we're at the...if a male fails we say, "there is one weak man"...if a woman fails we say "see, women can't do this."
    A few men may say "see, women can't do this" if/when a woman fails the training. Those men will be accused of hating women. If the majority of women fail the training, the liberals and feminists will blame the evil patriarchy and demand that the standards be lowered so more women can pass.
    As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others

  8. #98
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USN - Retired View Post
    I am a 52 year old man. The military would never send me through direct combat training (SEAL, Ranger, etc). Why? Because I am too old. The military wouldn't even let a 52 year old man enlist.

    If we're not going to restrict women from entering training for direct combat jobs then why have age limits on persons who enter training for direct combat jobs? Should we let people in their 50's go through SEAL and Ranger training? Perhaps a few old farts like me will make it through the training.

    The military should ban women from those types of training (i.e., SEAL, Ranger, etc) for the same reason that old farts like me ARE banned from those types of training. We're probably not going to make it through the training, and it would be a waste of tax payer money to send us through the training.


    A few men may say "see, women can't do this" if/when a woman fails the training. Those men will be accused of hating women. If the majority of women fail the training, the liberals and feminists will blame the evil patriarchy and demand that the standards be lowered so more women can pass.
    Lol....I don't think that's why you get accused of hating women, dude
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Garhkal... who's the one bitching and complaining about women and what they're allowed to do? Ah... you! That's what women have reduced YOU to. Yeah, I think you might want to shut the fuck up about other people being feminized. Especially considering the fact that women having rights is prompting you to want to step down from your role as a man.
    Excuse me?? My 'role' as a man? Where is it wrote what that is?
    Where does someone get trained in it?
    Do women also have their own 'role'? Oh yea, we have gotten away from that cause of feminism.. So why is that ok, but us men 'have to shut up and go back to your role'??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Younger men who think like Garhkal are going to start thinking again real soon if shit hits the fan. Especially in a situation where a married man's wife has a lower number than he does.
    I'm almost 42.. I ain't young.
    And what # are you on about??

    Quote Originally Posted by USN - Retired View Post
    All combat jobs are now open to women; however, the NFL does not have even one football player who is a woman. Is a professional foot ball game more dangerous than direct hand-to-hand combat? Why are there no women playing football in the NFL? I'm just askin'.
    That is a very good point? Nor do we have women on the same national teams for Soccer, Hockey etc.. Heck even in schools, once you get into HS level, the teams segregate..

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    It's because prior to the establishment of the all male TACP AFSC 275, those duties were performed by 304's Ground Radio many of whom were attached to Combat Units in Vietnam
    That would make sense for the 3o4s, what about all the other 30XXXs? A 307XO for example was about as likely to be found on the front line as a military historian, or perhaps less likely.

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