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Thread: Pete Rose

  1. #11
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    The Pete Rose ruling goes back to the first Commissioner of Baseball - Keenesaw Mountain Landis after the "Black Sox" scandal. Google it for the full story...
    In a nutshell, the Black Sox player were acquitted at trial, but Commissioner Landis ruled that "Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."
    That set the precedent that was used with Pete Rose.
    I feel Rose should be in the Hall of Fame - no doubt about it. Until Pro Baseball is willing to make an official ruling regarding the steroid era, they appear to be cherry picking what is harmful to the sport and what is not.
    As with the original post:

    Beat your wife: Pro sports basically gives you a pass.

    Beat your kid: Pro sports basically gives you a pass.

    Murder someone: Pro sports basically gives you a pass.

    Obstruct justice in a murder trial: Pro sports basically gives you a pass.

    Get drunk, drive your car and kill someone: Pro sports basically gives you a pass.

    Mess with the "integrity of the game": Stand the hell by.

    It is a hypocrisy that will likely not change as long as the athletes are part of a multi-billion dollar machine.

    Sports stars used to be heroes and conducted themselves knowing people looked up to them. Times have changed, for many there are new heroes.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  2. #12
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    A
    Sports stars used to be heroes and conducted themselves knowing people looked up to them. Times have changed, for many there are new heroes.
    I don't know how true this is. Babe Ruth was an alcoholic douche bag. It seems worse now because of 24 hour news cycles and social media. The spotlight is on it. Other than that, I have a hard time picturing athletes of any era being upstanding role models. Too much focus has been placed on their personal lives. I don't care about their personal lives. Can you hit a baseball 450 ft, strike out 15 batters a game, shoot 55%? I'm good with that. I'm sure that most of us have stuff we do in our everyday lives, after we leave work, that many in the public would find appalling.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I don't know how true this is. Babe Ruth was an alcoholic douche bag. It seems worse now because of 24 hour news cycles and social media. The spotlight is on it. Other than that, I have a hard time picturing athletes of any era being upstanding role models. Too much focus has been placed on their personal lives. I don't care about their personal lives. Can you hit a baseball 450 ft, strike out 15 batters a game, shoot 55%? I'm good with that. I'm sure that most of us have stuff we do in our everyday lives, after we leave work, that many in the public would find appalling.
    Fair point. Babe Ruth had a lot of personal issues, the press didn't report them as much as they do today, there was not a photographer following him 24/7 as exists for many sports folks today. Many athlete's / public persona in the past had personal failings that if they were doing those things in 2015 would surly be widely circulated and would likely impact their consideration as 'heroes'.

    JFK: multiple affairs, but the 'proper' press didn't discuss these.

    Babe Ruth: Alcoholic

    Mickey Mantle Alcoholic

    Dwight Eisenhower: at least one public affair with a UK secretary during WWII

    George Washington: Engaged to Martha, carried on romantic letter writing with another woman.

    All did great things in their fields of endeavor, all had failings that if they did those things today, would likely be vilified in the press.

    Big picture is that parents have a huge impact in who their kids idolize; parents should probably take a bit more time to teach their kids what a hero is, and what a good athlete is. On a case by case basis they may be the same, they may not.

    Being a hero is a hell of a lot harder than hitting a baseball or putting a ball through a hoop.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I don't know how true this is. Babe Ruth was an alcoholic douche bag. It seems worse now because of 24 hour news cycles and social media. The spotlight is on it. Other than that, I have a hard time picturing athletes of any era being upstanding role models. Too much focus has been placed on their personal lives. I don't care about their personal lives. Can you hit a baseball 450 ft, strike out 15 batters a game, shoot 55%? I'm good with that. I'm sure that most of us have stuff we do in our everyday lives, after we leave work, that many in the public would find appalling.

    ...and Babe Ruth's records should have an asterisk next to them, too....he played in a segregated all-white league....so, the talent he played against was much diluted...how many homers could he have hit facing Johnny Cueto every other night??
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    ...and Babe Ruth's records should have an asterisk next to them, too....he played in a segregated all-white league....so, the talent he played against was much diluted...how many homers could he have hit facing Johnny Cueto every other night??
    Disagree completely. You can only play against the competition you are given. That's like saying that current QBs should have an asterisk next to their stats because prior QBs didn't have all of the protection on receivers and being hit that they do now. If the 1970s Steelers were to play against a team today, they'd get crushed. Should their Superbowl victories have an asterisk? Should we deduct 400 of Richard Petty's wins because the rules back then weren't as fair as they are now?

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Disagree completely. You can only play against the competition you are given. That's like saying that current QBs should have an asterisk next to their stats because prior QBs didn't have all of the protection on receivers and being hit that they do now. If the 1970s Steelers were to play against a team today, they'd get crushed. Should their Superbowl victories have an asterisk? Should we deduct 400 of Richard Petty's wins because the rules back then weren't as fair as they are now?
    Richard Petty had 200 wins total.

    ...change of rules is different. Ruth did not play against all the best of his day....so, it would be more like comparing minor league stats to major league stats
    The Voice of Reason

  7. #17
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Richard Petty had 200 wins total.

    ...change of rules is different. Ruth did not play against all the best of his day....so, it would be more like comparing minor league stats to major league stats
    I was exaggerating on the wins, but thanks for correcting me.

    Should we asterisk all of Bobby Jones golfing wins? What about NBA records before the merger? Pete Maravich?

    Babe Ruth, and others, played against the best he was able to play against. Would he be successful now? Maybe, but probably not. But Jack Nicolas wouldn't win all his major's if he played today, either.

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    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    Richard Petty had 200 wins total.
    That is a lot of left turns.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I was exaggerating on the wins, but thanks for correcting me.

    Should we asterisk all of Bobby Jones golfing wins? What about NBA records before the merger? Pete Maravich?

    Babe Ruth, and others, played against the best he was able to play against. Would he be successful now? Maybe, but probably not. But Jack Nicolas wouldn't win all his major's if he played today, either.
    True......
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    True......
    Calvin Johnson just broke the record for TD catches on Thanksgiving, and has 7 years in a row with at least one. Since the majority of other receivers don't even get the opportunity to play on Thanksgiving, should that be an asterisk?

    Listen, I get your point. I just think it's impossible to qualify the record based on the opposition.

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