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Thread: Anonymous intends to unveil names of up to 1,000 Ku Klux Klan members

  1. #21
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Why would having a white doctor who is working on black patients, but is a KKK member, be 'public has a right to know'? Unless that doc is willfully giving those black patients a lesser level of service, i don't see it.
    This, right here, doesn't even deserve a response. I'll just make it my new signature instead.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
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    You're welcome, Garhkal.

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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    Rainmaker,

    Where did you pick up the fact that Jews being number 2 in the list for hackers? From what I have read, China is the second most hacker filled country in the world, while the US is number 1.

    Maybe we should ask Mjolnir about the true figures. He is the XO for the Navy's Cyber War Command, or whatever it is named.

    Little known fact:

    Over the last couple of years, Mjolnir and I have banned spammers/spam bots/hackers from countries, worldwide. To date, we have removed about 800 of these bad boys.

    I am just too lazy to try to figure out, country by country, how many are from each country. China/Russia/Russian Confederacy/France/Canada, and a few other countries make up the larger part of this list. Part of this list does contain some bad guys from Pakistan, Iran, and Egypt.

    Number of bans for Israel, 0. We have yet to ban anyone from there. Why? Because the protocols which we identify the spammers and hackers with have not yet had any identified as having originated in Israel.
    I really don't want to wade into this long standing abortion of a discussion but I find it amazing that you haven't discovered anyone hacking from Israel. They have a very strong and advanced computer tech industry and Technion is a very highly thought of school (think Israeli MIT). Could it be you simply aren't detecting them?
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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    This, right here, doesn't even deserve a response. I'll just make it my new signature instead.
    Why didn't you quote his entire response?

    "Why would having a white doctor who is working on black patients, but is a KKK member, be 'public has a right to know'? Unless that doc is willfully giving those black patients a lesser level of service, i don't see it."
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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I really don't want to wade into this long standing abortion of a discussion but I find it amazing that you haven't discovered anyone hacking from Israel. They have a very strong and advanced computer tech industry and Technion is a very highly thought of school (think Israeli MIT). Could it be you simply aren't detecting them?
    Spammers and spam bots aren't in the same category of nation-state sponsored hackers.

    Spam bots are the computer equivalent of junk mail, and that is what Rastus is talking about cleaning up.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

  6. #26
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Spammers and spam bots aren't in the same category of nation-state sponsored hackers.

    Spam bots are the computer equivalent of junk mail, and that is what Rastus is talking about cleaning up.
    I wasn't referring to nation-state sponsored hackers but individual Israeli citizens. I seems strange to me that none have been identified from that country.
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    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
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    TJ,

    I am sure that we aren't detecting everybody. The removal of those that we can not discover is done by some nice people far above our non existent paygrade.

    We ban the low hanging fruit, as it were.

    TEGNA has to employ some pretty good anti-hack people, or this forum would be long gone, or totally messed up.

    Once in awhile, I do believe that we catch some not so good hackers, down at the SM level of anti-badguy activity. Then again, maybe not.

    Theirs not to question why, theirs but to do and die, into the valley of spam, rode the Super Moderators.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Why would having a white doctor who is working on black patients, but is a KKK member, be 'public has a right to know'? Unless that doc is willfully giving those black patients a lesser level of service, i don't see it..
    You don't think that a patent has a right to know if their doctor is insane of has become mentally deficient? Or if their doctor wants to harm them?


    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    But they are only 'bad guys' in the sense that these groups does stuff Anonymous dislikes..
    Who have they gone after except perhaps Ashley Madison that the general public doesn't think are bad guys? They tend to only go after people that the general public would consider scum or worse? They go after folks like the KKK and the WBC for the most part and I would guess that a majority of the public cheers them on. Exposing who is is the KKK doesn't harm any good people, so the general public is not going to get too upset. Can you imagine trying to get twelve people to unanimously agree that harassing the Westboro Baptist Church is a crime worthy of punishment? The same goes for the Klan. It is rough on a prosecutor when people look at the crime and smile, or even laugh at the victim.

    Schadenfreude makes a conviction hard to achieve,

  9. #29
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    The problem (IMO) with a hacktivist group such as Anonymous is that there is no accountability on their part for their actions.

    When the Ferguson MO (Michael Brown) incident took place, an Anonymous associated hacker published the full name, home address, home and cell numbers and SSN of a St. Louis police officer that they determined was the shooter ... unfortunately it was the wrong guy. Their (wrong) conclusion was based on pretty poor analytic techniques: the guy did work for the police department (non-officer position), was blonde -- as described by witnesses to the shooting etc. however he was deemed 'guilty enough'. What ensued for the wrongly named man was death-threats, relocating his family and credit problems. There have been dozens of incidents like this attributed to Anonymous. Even if they had named the correct person, they assume guilt absent due process.

    The decentralized nature of the group prevents true organization & accountability. The group generally supports internet freedom, opposes censorship, highly supports personal privacy (particularly important for this topic) and undertakes 'social justice'. Problematic is that the group contradicts its own stated goals depending on the motive / viewpoint of the particular member. For a group whose members seem to be fervent about privacy, publishing a list of names of persons who belong to a private organization is counter to that. The KKK is a hate group, and what they espouse is foul but where is the line drawn on what doesn't meet the social 'litmus test' of a hacker who has an axe to grind with a particular issue or organization? Is the next step a political viewpoint screening, religious screening or other ideological determination that you are or are not 'acceptable.'

    The initial motive of Anonymous was security and software issues. When Anonymous published data that is obtained through illegal access this costs money to the impacted companies. These costs are passed along to the consumer. If these types of groups worked with many of these companies, they could get the same effect with much less cost. However the 'prank' and public embarrassment has become a parallel motivation of many within the group.

    ==========

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    ... Short of murder whatever you want to do against an organization like the KKK, or the WBC (another target) is more likely to get pubic approval that disapproval, no matter what the law says.
    Unfortunately the Westboro Baptist Church raised the vast majority of its money through lawsuits (violation of their free speech rights) despite the majority of the public not wanting to hear what they have to say.

    ==========

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    However... this is a bit different. If there's a white physician who's a member of the KKK, and he's performing surgeries on black patients... you might want to know that. Police officers, teachers, restaurant owners, judges, mayors, and so many others... those are things that they public has the right to now.
    I would disagree for the most part. The public doesn't have a right to know, but a desire to know that who they either patronize or support has a set of values or beliefs similar to their own. If someone is a racist that is their business ... the moment that belief stimulates an action that infringes on someone else's rights then there is a problem. In the case of the examples you give, if the racist is executing their job without bias, what they do or espouse in their private life is private unless they have harmed someone as a result of a personal belief ... Otherwise we would be arbitrarily prosecuting people for committing though-crimes. If their beliefs become public, it is up to the public to decide if they support that person or not.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 11-02-2015 at 12:42 AM.
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  10. #30
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Who have they gone after except perhaps Ashley Madison that the general public doesn't think are bad guys?
    2008-Church of Scientology -incorrectly named individuals with no ties to CoS as pro-CoS hackers -- got the personal ID's wrong. They had damage to their credit accounts and had to go through multiple iterations of email address / provider changes.

    2012-Named the wrong private individual in a bullying case where the bullied kid committed suicide.

    2012-Named the wrong private individual as the Sandy Hook shooter. Death threats and he dropped off social media.

    2013-Named the wrong private individuals as the Boston Marathon bombing suspects.

    2013-Named the wrong private company as being owned by an avowed racist; realized they got it wrong and named another private company ... got it wrong that time too. Those companies lost a few clients before it all got sorted out.

    2014-Named the wrong individual as the Ferguson MO police officer that shot Michael Brown. Death threats, family and he went into hiding, eventually returned to work but still receiving threats as of SEPT 2015.

    It is very hard to feel too sorry for targets such as the KKK, but too often they are good hackers but poor investigators or analysts and they get it wrong. And when they do, it can have devastating consequences for those concerned: Accused of horrendous crimes or association with organizations that they have never associated with their names become permanently linked via a no-accountability vigilante who is a poor investigator.

    For all you know there may be a guy named Mike Kerr as a member of the KKK, however your name may be 'close enough' to be named. It may not effect you or you may not care ... but most would be effected and do care. And it may be another issue down the road that is not tied to race that an innocent private individual is tied to via shoddy investigative work by a social-justice seeking hacker.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 11-01-2015 at 03:16 PM.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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