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Thread: Boehner to resign at end of October

  1. #31
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Inside the US the rules used by police on when the use of armed force is authorized are the ones that count, especial when the force is being used to enforce civil law. You would have a point is you were talking about military actions in a state of war, or a situation approaching war outside the US, but in the US the military has to obey civil law like everyone else and the SC has made it very clear when the use of deadly force is authorized to stop a criminal. That the US Government can torture people outside the US doesn't mean that they can ignore Miranda and torture criminal suspects within the US for example.
    In some many ways, yes. Are you aware / versed on the exceptions to Posse Comitatus already in place for SOCOM? Not offering opinion if it is right or wrong, but legal exceptions are already in place when dealing with certain types of criminals ... Mostly terrorists. The process more mission approval is very thorough and makes me glad I am not a JAG Officer.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    I notice you make no comments on the folks that can't even spell the Presidents or MS. Clinton's name? Look up the term "Hypocrite "
    What in God's name are you talking about now?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    I use pejoratives becasue ti think that the names fit theses loons who are so willing to throw way rte lives of American soldiers and the Constitution. I think that they are dangerous to the civilian citizenry of the United States, the Military and the Constitution.
    "Throw away lives". I have a dictionary suggestion for you..................Hyperbole.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    I was assuming that the military would be used becasue any policeman who received orders for the drone strikes would be obligated to arrest the nut-job giving him the orders. And order to commit murder is not one that a honest cop can take without arresting the person who gives him the order. A mitary member at least can claim ignorance of the laws Cops must both follow and enforce.
    As I said before you REALLY should stop attempting to provide ANY interpretation of laws. You are a miserable failure at it. At best you oversimplify and at worst you completely fuck it up.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    What in God's name are you talking about now?
    The dimmwirted conservatives that use terms like Obbumer and such


    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    "Throw away lives". I have a dictionary suggestion for you..................Hyperbole.
    Gather you have no knowlwdge of trumps plan for arbitrary intervention against ISIS, that plan is throwing away lives out of sheer stupidity,. He thinks we can take and hold just the oilfields without a major loss of life/. Like GW Bush he is willing to throw away mitary lives for a few political points



    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    As I said before you REALLY should stop attempting to provide ANY interpretation of laws. You are a miserable failure at it. At best you oversimplify and at worst you completely fuck it up.
    I got this one right, the laws in this area, and the precedents are very clear. Carson is just a clueless clown who has no grasp on legal, military or Constitutional reality.

  4. #34
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    The dimmwirted conservatives that use terms like Obbumer and such
    Like Teabagger? Yeah I get it. What I don't get is why you brought that up in comparison to you calling anyone you don't agree with (Republicans) scumbags and loons, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Gather you have no knowlwdge of trumps plan for arbitrary intervention against ISIS, that plan is throwing away lives out of sheer stupidity,. He thinks we can take and hold just the oilfields without a major loss of life/. Like GW Bush he is willing to throw away mitary lives for a few political points
    Well, I first balked at your claim the Carson is willing to "throw away lives" Still don't know how that one works in your mind. As for Trump I don't know how he intends to build a wall on the southern border or deport 11 million people either. I don't know how Sanders plans to pay for his programs without raising taxes or slashing the military to almost nothing. One thing I can say is that by not engaging ISIS we are saving US lives. Until we aren't.

    Speaking of predictable.............after more than six years had to get a "It's Bush's fault" dig in.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    I got this one right, the laws in this area, and the precedents are very clear. Carson is just a clueless clown who has no grasp on legal, military or Constitutional reality.
    Ah, no you didn't get it right. The Posse Comitatus is not as ironclad as you intimate. A collateral death in a police actions is not universally "premeditated murder". In fact that charge is very, very rare in police involved shootings. I would tell you to keep trying but the truth is I wish you would stop.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Like Teabagger? Yeah I get it. What I don't get is why you brought that up in comparison to you calling anyone you don't agree with (Republicans) scumbags and loons, etc..
    Because you whine about the word I s use while ignoring the language your side of the issuers uses, that makes you a hypocrite.



    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Well, I first balked at your claim the Carson is willing to "throw away lives" Still don't know how that one works in your mind. As for Trump I don't know how he intends to build a wall on the southern border or deport 11 million people either. I don't know how Sanders plans to pay for his programs without raising taxes or slashing the military to almost nothing. One thing I can say is that by not engaging ISIS we are saving US lives. Until we aren't.
    Engaginfge ISIS is a good I dea and a necessay one, Trumps plan on the otherhand is simply a display of a near complete ignorance of military realities.
    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Speaking of predictable.............after more than six years had to get a "It's Bush's fault" dig in.
    He was the POS that got us into the war in Iraq, so why should he not have the s responsibility for the deaths his incompetence and hubris caused?




    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Ah, no you didn't get it right. The Posse Comitatus is not as ironclad as you intimate. A collateral death in a police actions is not universally "premeditated murder". In fact that charge is very, very rare in police involved shootings. I would tell you to keep trying but the truth is I wish you would stop.
    When the police action involved is a crime in and of itself deaths realating to that action are called felony homicide. This would be the equivalent of a Cop rubbing a bank and killing a teller since it would be a action that can't be supported by law. The ruling about when deadly force can and can not be used is pretty clear as is Posse Commitaus, especially since with both those things a the proposed action would be violating the core of the ruling/statute where there is little leeway.

    How do think that the Posse Commitatus and Tennessee V. Garner can be twisted enough to allow Carson's plan not to be considered murder? The use of deadly force in law enforcement is legally limited to the officer has Probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or other. We are not talking about contested law here this is straight forward stuff, If you use force outside that limit it is murder, if you plan to use force outside those limits and then do so it is premeditated murder.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Because you whine about the word I s use while ignoring the language your side of the issuers uses, that makes you a hypocrite.



    Engaginfge ISIS is a good I dea and a necessay one, Trumps plan on the otherhand is simply a display of a near complete ignorance of military realities.
    He was the POS that got us into the war in Iraq, so why should he not have the s responsibility for the deaths his incompetence and hubris caused?




    When the police action involved is a crime in and of itself deaths realating to that action are called felony homicide. This would be the equivalent of a Cop rubbing a bank and killing a teller since it would be a action that can't be supported by law. The ruling about when deadly force can and can not be used is pretty clear as is Posse Commitaus, especially since with both those things a the proposed action would be violating the core of the ruling/statute where there is little leeway.

    How do think that the Posse Commitatus and Tennessee V. Garner can be twisted enough to allow Carson's plan not to be considered murder? The use of deadly force in law enforcement is legally limited to the officer has Probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or other. We are not talking about contested law here this is straight forward stuff, If you use force outside that limit it is murder, if you plan to use force outside those limits and then do so it is premeditated murder.
    Your typing is getting worse again. Something wrong?

    The fact that you characterize my questioning of your incessant use of pejorative insults to routinely refer to those you don't like (Republicans) as whining is just more of the same drivel. Have you no imagination or credibility?

    Bush unilaterally got us into war? Another of your stellar displays of historical awareness. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/h455

    Instead of digging the hole deeper (Felony Homicide? Is there such a thing as Misdemeanor Homicide?) how about just addressing your original fractured ideas on this and stop adding more shit to the pile? You are so far afield from reality. Drone strike on a cave to cop robbing a bank and killing a teller?!? What the hell does that even mean.

    To refresh your memory...................

    "the caves bit is pretty simple, If you shoot at a empty cave on US territory you are very unlikely to harm it, and it could easily be destroyed by a guy with 50$ worth of dynamite instead of a missile with a 6 digit price tag that is unlike to do harm to the cave. If you shoot a Cave on US soil with a missile and you kill someone you have just committed per-meditated murder since the legal and constitutional requirements for the use of deadly force have not been met. You have also violated Posse Comitatus since the mitary is not allowed to enforce civil law, much less commit murder while doing so. Yes, other people have proposed that but that just means that they are ignorant asses at best."
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Your typing is getting worse again. Something wrong?

    The fact that you characterize my questioning of your incessant use of pejorative insults to routinely refer to those you don't like (Republicans) as whining is just more of the same drivel. Have you no imagination or credibility?

    Bush unilaterally got us into war? Another of your stellar displays of historical awareness. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/h455

    Instead of digging the hole deeper (Felony Homicide? Is there such a thing as Misdemeanor Homicide?) how about just addressing your original fractured ideas on this and stop adding more shit to the pile? You are so far afield from reality. Drone strike on a cave to cop robbing a bank and killing a teller?!? What the hell does that even mean.

    To refresh your memory...................

    "the caves bit is pretty simple, If you shoot at a empty cave on US territory you are very unlikely to harm it, and it could easily be destroyed by a guy with 50$ worth of dynamite instead of a missile with a 6 digit price tag that is unlike to do harm to the cave. If you shoot a Cave on US soil with a missile and you kill someone you have just committed per-meditated murder since the legal and constitutional requirements for the use of deadly force have not been met. You have also violated Posse Comitatus since the mitary is not allowed to enforce civil law, much less commit murder while doing so. Yes, other people have proposed that but that just means that they are ignorant asses at best."
    Bush's administration manipulated the intelligence to get us into a war, his scumbag VP still pretends that there was a threat.

    Felony homicide is a crime that applies in most states, If someone dies as a result of your committing a felony it is treated as murder even if you did not pull the trigger.

    The bank analogy works well since blowing things up on private and state property without the owners consent is a felony and that covers more that half of the border. If some dies in the commission of a felony it is regarded as murder. Without a warrant you are not even allowed to search private property much less blow it up.
    Last edited by MikeKerriii; 09-30-2015 at 01:40 AM.

  8. #38
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Bush's administration manipulated the intelligence to get us into a war, his scumbag VP still pretends that there was a threat.

    Felony homicide is a crime that applies in most states, If someone dies as a result of your committing a felony it is treated as murder even if you did not pull the trigger.

    The bank analogy works well since blowing things up on private and state property without the owners consent is a felony and that covers more that half of the border. If some dies in the commission of a felony it is regarded as murder. Without a warrant you are not even allowed to search private property much less blow it up.
    Ok, I get it......Bush = Evil. Cheney = Satan

    Now I know what you are talking about. At least the first part. It is usually referred to as Felony Murder and it doesn't fit your example. If the act of striking a cartel cave (still don't know where those are) on US soil is declared illegal (and I am not conceding that is a foregone conclusion) then the people killed in the strike would all be just murder victims. The felony murder charge wouldn't apply since the murders were a direct and singular result of the missile strike. Same with the dead teller. Guy robs a bank and kills a teller that is murder. Customer dies of a heart attack as a result of the robbery...THAT could be considered felony murder.

    As for the last part.......I ask again, what in God's name are you talking about? Your fractured logic is actually painful to my brain.

    "Blowing things up on private and state property is a felony" ?!?!?!
    Last edited by TJMAC77SP; 09-30-2015 at 02:05 PM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    In the last 6 years, The Nobel Peace Prize Winner in Chief (peace be upon him) has bombed Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Intentionally destabilized Secular regimes all over the Middle East in order to install Fundamentalist Fanatics in their place, routinely droned wedding parties, created ISIS (either inadvertently or intentionally ,depending on who you ask), backed the Sunni Saudi invasion of Yemen.

    And last but, not least... Paved the way for the Moslem invasion/Colonization of Western and Northern Europe.

    Now, Rainmaker don't know what to make of Chairman Obamao's Charlie Foxtrot foreign policy.

    It could be a vast right wing conspiracy against Hitlery or, it could be Darth Cheney's fault. But, There's One thing Rainmaker can be sure of. It's that those Norwegians really know a pacifist when they see one. NomSayin?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 10-01-2015 at 04:31 PM.

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Bush's administration manipulated the intelligence to get us into a war, his scumbag VP still pretends that there was a threat.


    The Deception and lies are not unique to only one political party.

    The problem is that the "intelligence community" is not really all that Intelligent (it's just incredibly over-funded)

    It's mostly staffed with Incompetent bureaucratic drones and led by politically correct idiots (just Like the rest of the Fed Government) .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelgate


    "The whistle blowers allege that the Obama Administration attempted to portray a rosy image of the fight against the Islamic State by altering some reports to seem more positive, while burying other reports to keep them from the press and Congress.

    The analysts specifically alleged that the conclusions of both their reports about the readiness of indigenous forces to face ISIS, and about the effectiveness of the American air campaigns over Syria and Iraq, were completely reversed by the Administration before distribution"
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 10-01-2015 at 04:34 PM.

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