Page 10 of 114 FirstFirst ... 891011122060110 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 1139

Thread: Election 2016

  1. #91
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    2,965
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    there is no evidence or even indication that voter problem is more that a very rare thing, It is usefully to provide excuses and give racist chums something to fuss about but that is about it, How many confirmed cases of election fraud have been found in the last decade?
    While voter fraud may not take place in large or even majority numbers, it can have substantial secondary and tertiary effects (I actually did my Master's Thesis at Georgetown on voter fraud):

    In the 2008 elections, Al Franken (D) challenged incumbent Senator Norm Coleman (R) from Minnesota; the election was one of the closest ever. At first Coleman was ahead by a bit over 700 votes and after months of recounts and legal challenges, Franken was declared the winner by just over 300 in July 2009 and sworn in as the junior Senator from Minnesota.

    A secondary effect of Sen. Franken's win was he was the 60th Senator to caucus with the Democrats in the 111th Congress -- giving the Democrats a filibuster-proof majority (which would last through the death of Sen. Kennedy and his appointed substitute Sen. Paul Kirk until the election and swearing in of Sen. Scott Brown.

    A tertiary effect of Sen. Franken's win was the party line vote (60 - 40) for cloture on H.R. 3590 (originally a modification of the Internal Revenue Code and replaced with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.)

    In 2010, it was initially alleged that over 1300 voters in the 2008 election were convicted felons and ineligible to vote, as of late 2013 (when I included this topic in my Master's Thesis) the number had fallen to 1099 and over 300 convictions had been made by state prosecutors. Of the 1099 ineligible voters, almost 90% voted a straight democratic ballot. Now, I am not stating that a vast left-wing conspiracy colluded to elect Sen. Franken, any of the Senator's from the Democratic party in the 11th Congress could be considered the 60th vote; his was just the closest election that cycle. But, you can easily see that voter fraud, even just a few hundred in sleepy Minnesota can have huge repercussions.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    If you can't get a ID for free it is a poll tax, Money you must spend before you can vote
    One of the issues cited in the Supreme Court ruling this year in the case of Wisconsin's voter ID law (which SCOTUS allowed to stand) was that Wisconsin made ID's free and available to any resident of the state. Which seems to be the standard across the board is that states offer a free ID for voting (distinct from a driver's licence etc.) Now, if you have to pay to get a copy of a birth certificate to get the ID, that may be an unintended cost but how far back / how many steps does one go on that? Voter ID laws are often said to target the poor & roughly 10% of eligible voters do not have any form of voter ID (most of those are low-income), however about 3/4 of them are able to obtain government assistance, which does require some type of ID (maybe not acceptable for voting ... but it is what it is.) In those states that offer free ID's, yes ... you have to get yourself to an ID office which could be a problem in rural areas, but according to Pew (from 2013) over 90% of those low income people without ID's live in urban areas and roughly 1-3 miles of some type of government ID office ... so not at all unattainable.

    @TJMAC77SP sorry ... couldn't help it.
    Last edited by Mjölnir; 07-29-2015 at 04:02 PM.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,882
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    But, you can easily see that voter fraud, even just a few hundred in sleepy Minnesota can have huge repercussions.
    Somali voters huh?

    Don't talk around it, Commander Mjolnir....

    You have to keep in mind, that some of us here are alumni of The University of Phoenix "Fighting Phoenix's" and not Georgetown, and so we're not able to read between the lines.... Yet....
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-29-2015 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #93
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    965
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    While voter fraud may not take place in large or even majority numbers, it can have substantial secondary and tertiary effects (I actually did my Master's Thesis at Georgetown on voter fraud):

    In the 2008 elections, Al Franken (D) challenged incumbent Senator Norm Coleman (R) from Minnesota; the election was one of the closest ever. At first Coleman was ahead by a bit over 700 votes and after months of recounts and legal challenges, Franken was declared the winner by just over 300 in July 2009 and sworn in as the junior Senator from Minnesota.

    A secondary effect of Sen. Franken's win was he was the 60th Senator to caucus with the Democrats in the 111th Congress -- giving the Democrats a filibuster-proof majority (which would last through the death of Sen. Kennedy and his appointed substitute Sen. Paul Kirk until the election and swearing in of Sen. Scott Brown.

    A tertiary effect of Sen. Franken's win was the party line vote (60 - 40) for cloture on H.R. 3590 (originally a modification of the Internal Revenue Code and replaced with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.)

    In 2010, it was initially alleged that over 1300 voters in the 2008 election were convicted felons and ineligible to vote, as of late 2013 (when I included this topic in my Master's Thesis) the number had fallen to 1099 and over 300 convictions had been made by state prosecutors. Of the 1099 ineligible voters, almost 90% voted a straight democratic ballot. Now, I am not stating that a vast left-wing conspiracy colluded to elect Sen. Franken, any of the Senator's from the Democratic party in the 11th Congress could be considered the 60th vote; his was just the closest election that cycle. But, you can easily see that voter fraud, even just a few hundred in sleepy Minnesota can have huge repercussions.




    One of the issues cited in the Supreme Court ruling this year in the case of Wisconsin's voter ID law (which SCOTUS allowed to stand) was that Wisconsin made ID's free and available to any resident of the state. Which seems to be the standard across the board is that states offer a free ID for voting (distinct from a driver's licence etc.) Now, if you have to pay to get a copy of a birth certificate to get the ID, that may be an unintended cost but how far back / how many steps does one go on that? Voter ID laws are often said to target the poor & roughly 10% of eligible voters do not have any form of voter ID (most of those are low-income), however about 3/4 of them are able to obtain government assistance, which does require some type of ID (maybe not acceptable for voting ... but it is what it is.) In those states that offer free ID's, yes ... you have to get yourself to an ID office which could be a problem in rural areas, but according to Pew (from 2013) over 90% of those low income people without ID's live in urban areas and roughly 1-3 miles of some type of government ID office ... so not at all unattainable.

    @TJMAC77SP sorry ... couldn't help it.
    Would a picture I have stopped any of that fraud?
    Last edited by MikeKerriii; 07-29-2015 at 05:44 PM.

  4. #94
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    2,965
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Would a picture I have stopped any of that fraud?
    If a voter ID law were in place in MN in 2008, most likely. Most states that have voter ID laws do not 'turn people away' at the polls. Voters without valid ID cast a provisional ballot. Now, most provisional ballots are not counted (same as absentee ballots) unless the margin of victory is narrow enough to warrant it. If a provisional ballot is filed and the voter found to not be eligible, the vote is not counted.

    But the issue I am pointing out is that:

    1. I agree with you, voter fraud is rare however,
    2. Voter fraud need not be rampant to have implications in local, state nor federal politics.

    Now, my personal opinion is I see hypocracy in a couple of areas by many IRT Voter ID issues:

    1. Progressives are steadfastly against voter ID laws, and as you mentioned ... a photo ... ID because the right to vote shall not be impeded however, the same crowd is steadfast that people should have ID and be registered to carry a firearm ... also a Constitutional right that shall not be impeded.

    2. A couple of Supreme Court rulings have gotten us to the point that precedent exists that voter ID laws are actually Constitutional (North Carolina 2013, Wisconsin 2015 to name two) provided that the state that requires the ID make the ID available to anyone for free. Rather than educate the low income, minority, elderly etc people that it is help people get in compliance with the laws, we waste time and effort fighting the law (which again, has been established as Constitutional in their present forms.)

    3. Yes, I can see the point that paying $25 or $50 dollars is a big ding to someone with a low income or even a fixed income, that is why states are required to make them free, however I see a slight semantic disparity in the effort to register and get ID for low income and minority voters vice low income minority voters -- to me that is both hypocritical and racist.

    4. In areas were there are efforts to get people in line with the voter ID laws, there is more of a push to get ID offices in areas that would traditionally support one side of the political spectrum vice a somewhat even distribution.

    100, 50 or so years ago I don't know if this would have been as needed. Most people tended to be born, grow up and live their lives in the same general area, people knew who you were etc. Today, not so much. This is far short of walking down the street and being asked to present your papers, and unilaterally saying that it impacts low income, minority or elderly voters isn't really true as shown in places where said laws have been enacted.

    While many people will say "one vote just doesn't count" ... it could. Maybe not in Chicago or New York nor directly in Small Town USA, but as evidenced in Minnesota in 2008, the implications of a couple of hundred out of 2.5 million votes drastically impacted national politics ... something that we shouldn't ignore.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  5. #95
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    2,965
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Somali voters huh?

    Don't talk around it, Commander Mjolnir....

    You have to keep in mind, that some of us here are alumni of The University of Phoenix "Fighting Phoenix's" and not Georgetown, and so we're not able to read between the lines.... Yet....
    Nothing wrong with University of Pheonix, my undergrad degree is from an online University. The degree is just a piece of paper and for the most part where it comes from is not important ... what you do with the tools you acquired in getting it however ... nomsayin?

    I only point out the thesis to make the point that I am not 100% talking out of my butt on this & have put some time in on the subject.

    So only 50% talking out my butt.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,562
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Nothing wrong with University of Pheonix, my undergrad degree is from an online University. The degree is just a piece of paper and for the most part where it comes from is not important ... what you do with the tools you acquired in getting it however ... nomsayin?

    I only point out the thesis to make the point that I am not 100% talking out of my butt on this & have put some time in on the subject.

    So only 50% talking out my butt.
    You might be denied entry into the elitist snob chapter of the Knights of Columbus
    The Voice of Reason

  7. #97
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,882
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    "50 or so years ago I don't know if this would have been as needed. Most people tended to be born, grow up and live their lives in the same general area, people knew who you were etc. Today, not so much."

    This would be a "non-issue" if the political types in both parties hadn't intentionally allowed the country to be flooded with Illegal Aliens for the last 50 years.

    By giving them direct access to open borders they've engaged in demographic warfare to undercut the value of The American worker's labor and displace America’s White European culture.

    Third World immigration is the biggest danger American's face today.

    So many problems could've been eliminated if they just did that one thing.......

    These traitors in our Government are the lowest, most disgusting humans on the planet.

    By encouraging people to break the law, Children are literally being sold into slavery by human traffickers smuggling them out of Mexico, while we look the other way.

    They are so heavily compromised that they are no longer capable of governing the country.

    Donald Trump is not even a conservative and yet he's running away with GOP field.

    The rest of the Republicrat NEOCONs just react in Smear tactics (while looking straight at the numbers from their constituents and ignoring them). We see it over and over and over.

    So, Rainmaker agrees with MikeKerriii. I'd rather vote for Hitlery, than vote for one of these RINO charlatans. Because, At least with CANKLES 2016 you know what you're going to get.

    Now, Commander......You've brought us from Trump to Baphomet to Somali Pirates to Jack Handy and back to Trump (see why we moderators)
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-29-2015 at 09:15 PM.

  8. #98
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,327
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    Some of those things require ID some do not, the problem is when they make the form of ID required narrow enough, My mother i did not have ID that fit the requirements of some states for over a decade before her birth, She simply had no need for it. And the States that allow a CCW to be used and refuse to allow an ID from a State run college are just making the point obvious,

    I could get along pretty well, bar driving, with just my retired military ID but that would not satisfy the clowns that wrote these laws, since it is not STATE issued. A college ID would work for all those purposes also

    It is not just being able to ID yourself it is making the IDs hard to obtain, essentially creating a poll tax.

    All to fix a non-existent problem
    All those examples i listed i have personally been asked for ID for. BUT i will give you the fact that many places it seems, don't like taking your mil ID (retired, dependent, heck even my active one while i was still in) preferring a state issued DL.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I will ask the same question I did almost two years ago when we had a thread on voter ID laws and one which was asked by Flaps yesterday (and ignored)....How exactly is anyone making it harder for the poor or old to vote?
    I think i remember that thread.. Do you remember the link for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    If you can't get a ID for free it is a poll tax, Money you must spend before you can vote
    So getting a passport or Drivers license is a poll tax as you have to pay for both (quite a bit of dosh iirc for passports these days)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    Of the 1099 ineligible voters, almost 90% voted a straight democratic ballot. Now, I am not stating that a vast left-wing conspiracy colluded to elect Sen. Franken, any of the Senator's from the Democratic party in the 11th Congress could be considered the 60th vote; his was just the closest election that cycle. But, you can easily see that voter fraud, even just a few hundred in sleepy Minnesota can have huge repercussions.
    I wonder.. If someone checked ALL the cases of voter fraud ever recorded, what the % would be democratic vice republican.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    1. Progressives are steadfastly against voter ID laws, and as you mentioned ... a photo ... ID because the right to vote shall not be impeded however, the same crowd is steadfast that people should have ID and be registered to carry a firearm ... also a Constitutional right that shall not be impeded.
    Its not just that part imo they see hypocrisy. iirc one of the democratic conventions where one of the main hot button issues they discussed, WAS the 'wrongness' of states which are pushing for voter ID laws), was held in a building you HAD TO show ID to get into..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
    While many people will say "one vote just doesn't count" ... it could. Maybe not in Chicago or New York nor directly in Small Town USA, but as evidenced in Minnesota in 2008, the implications of a couple of hundred out of 2.5 million votes drastically impacted national politics ... something that we shouldn't ignore.
    Heck, while it was just a film (And imo a decent one at that) they even made a film based on "Just that one vote mattering".. Swing vote with Kevin Costner.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,562
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    So getting a passport or Drivers license is a poll tax as you have to pay for both (quite a bit of dosh iirc for passports these days)?
    "poll tax"...is way of saying you must pay to vote. So, the cost for a passport is only a poll tax if states start requiring a passport to vote.

    Get it?

    That said...if "Poll Tax" is really the issue, the solution is pretty simple..."free" voter IDs. It could either be free for low income...or just keep it simply and make them free for everyone...there's gotta be a process for validating someone's identity even if they don't have a birth certificate...get a court order or something...it can not be that hard to identify people and give them and ID card.
    The Voice of Reason

  10. #100
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    on a Marl Road
    Posts
    3,882
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Following the lefty line of thinking then Why should I have to pay for a NICS check and show ID (to prove I'm not a felon) just to exercise my 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms? It's basically a tax you have to pay.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •