Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 194

Thread: Gen. Odierno: We have to be careful about over-arming ourselves

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, ohio
    Posts
    3,326
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)

    Gen. Odierno: We have to be careful about over-arming ourselves

    Saw this while looking for related stories to the Chattanooga shooting..

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2296597

    http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/...ll-be-reviewed

    http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/1...military-bases

    I failed to link the GOPUSA site i also saw it at, cause i know how many here feel about that site..

    But that said, what do you all think?
    And since the "General is concerned about accidental discharges', i take it he is going to immediately disarm HIS security force he has.

    BUT one of the best comments i saw in relation to it, WAS on the GOPUSA site..

    With everyone and everything going into the internet for almost everything these days (even job applications), WHY do we still even have brick and mortar recruitment offices? Why not recruit online?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    965
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Saw this while looking for related stories to the Chattanooga shooting..

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2296597

    http://www.usnews.com/news/politics/...ll-be-reviewed

    http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/1...military-bases

    I failed to link the GOPUSA site i also saw it at, cause i know how many here feel about that site..

    But that said, what do you all think?
    And since the "General is concerned about accidental discharges', i take it he is going to immediately disarm HIS security force he has.

    BUT one of the best comments i saw in relation to it, WAS on the GOPUSA site..

    With everyone and everything going into the internet for almost everything these days (even job applications), WHY do we still even have brick and mortar recruitment offices? Why not recruit online?
    I Doubt Ordierno's security forces include too many E-1through 4s fresh out of training. And even few stumble bumbs which exist in every large organization military and civilian

    You Don't think having a million of so people carrying firearms daily is going to cause a significant number of accidental deaths?
    Last edited by MikeKerriii; 07-19-2015 at 06:18 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    3,669
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    AP reports:

    A day after a gunman shot and killed four Marines and wounded three other people in Chattanooga, Gen. Ray Odierno, chief of staff of the Army, told reporters that arming troops in those offices could cause more problems than it might solve.

    "I think we have to be careful about over-arming ourselves, and I'm not talking about where you end up attacking each other," Odierno said during a morning breakfast. Instead, he said, it's more about "accidental discharges and everything else that goes along with having weapons that are loaded that causes injuries."
    The General is absolutely right to say what he said.

    Speaking as someone who served their first four years in the military carrying weapons everyday, I know firsthand what he is saying is true.

    I never liked qualifying with large groups of people at the range, because you never know when someone is going to fuck up.


    I've been on enough deployments to know that accidental discharges are a real problem.

    Plus, the vast majority of troops rarely handle weapons or are even trained on the use of deadly force.

    The General is looking at the issue like a responsible leader should, and not flying off the handle because of his emotions or politics.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    851
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    I Doubt Ordierno's security forces include too many E-1through 4s fresh out of training. And even few stumble bumbs which exist in every large organization military and civilian

    You Don't think having a million of so people carrying firearms daily is going to cause a significant number of accidental deaths?
    E1s - E4s? How about E5s and above only?

    Also, with millions of TRAINED people carrying firearms, I would expect few, if any accidental deaths. You don't hear about it for the millions of concealed carry permit holders, and you don't hear about it from cops. So why would it be any different for military, who by the way have more training than the majority of concealed permit holders?

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    851
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Plus, the vast majority of troops rarely handle weapons or are even trained on the use of deadly force.
    THAT is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Write it again,please.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    3,669
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    THAT is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Write it again,please.
    I'm beginning to doubt that you were even in the military based on your reaction to that statement.

    The vast majority of troops do jobs that are in support roles and don't carry weapons on a day-to-day basis, even in the Army and Marine Corps.

    I've seen people do idiotic things with weapons at the firing range, and at deployed locations because they were unfamiliar with the weapons they were carrying.

    Just because you are a NRA supporter, don't pull your grumpy old man routine with me.
    Last edited by Absinthe Anecdote; 07-19-2015 at 04:51 PM.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

  7. #7
    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    MTF-HQ
    Posts
    1,196
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    I highly doubt that any Marine who would be allowed to carry his or her issued sidearm while doing recruiting duty would ever have an accidental discharge of that weapon.

    Why? Because a Marine carrying a pistol, ie., a semi automatic clip fed weapon, would not go to work with a round in the chamber. The weapon might have a fully loaded clip, but it takes racking the slide of the pistol, to make it ready to fire. And that isn't done accidentally.

    And then there is the safety catch on sidearms. Always used, until that weapon is brought up, ready to fire.

    No one is allowed to carry a pistol on duty unless they have been trained to use it, in the USMC. The use of the pistol's safety catch, and when to actually jack in a round is a part of the training. No one ignores those rules.

    As far as I can remember, the same goes for rifles. It takes less than a second to chamber a round.

    When the command 'Lock and load' is given, then the weapon is charged. With the safety catch on.

    It has been awhile, since I was in the Corps. But some things never change.

    Maybe you have seen Marines firing their weapons prematurely at a firing range, AA? I have never seen that. Doing Drill Instructor at Parris Island, being on the firing range with 250 - 270 recruits doing their qualification weapons firing, for 2 years, I never once saw that happen, either as a recruit, a Marine, or as a Drill Instructor.

    It wouldn't be like a Marine going to work with a weapon that he or she hasn't ever fired before, during their life as a Marine. That would be unconscionable.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    177
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    Why? Because a Marine carrying a pistol, ie., a semi automatic clip fed weapon, would not go to work with a round in the chamber. The weapon might have a fully loaded clip, but it takes racking the slide of the pistol, to make it ready to fire. And that isn't done accidentally.

    And then there is the safety catch on sidearms. Always used, until that weapon is brought up, ready to fire.
    That's not how the USAF does it with the M9 9mm pistol. SOP is (or was) round in the camber, safety catch in the fire position, and then the weapon is secured in the holster.

  9. #9
    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    MTF-HQ
    Posts
    1,196
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    It has been awhile. Maybe the USMC did change, under it's glacially slow rate of change, also?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    3,669
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by UncaRastus View Post
    I highly doubt that any Marine who would be allowed to carry his or her issued sidearm while doing recruiting duty would ever have an accidental discharge of that weapon.

    Why? Because a Marine carrying a pistol, ie., a semi automatic clip fed weapon, would not go to work with a round in the chamber. The weapon might have a fully loaded clip, but it takes racking the slide of the pistol, to make it ready to fire. And that isn't done accidentally.

    And then there is the safety catch on sidearms. Always used, until that weapon is brought up, ready to fire.

    No one is allowed to carry a pistol on duty unless they have been trained to use it, in the USMC. The use of the pistol's safety catch, and when to actually jack in a round is a part of the training. No one ignores those rules.

    As far as I can remember, the same goes for rifles. It takes less than a second to chamber a round.

    When the command 'Lock and load' is given, then the weapon is charged. With the safety catch on.

    It has been awhile, since I was in the Corps. But some things never change.

    Maybe you have seen Marines firing their weapons prematurely at a firing range, AA? I have never seen that. Doing Drill Instructor at Parris Island, being on the firing range with 250 - 270 recruits doing their qualification weapons firing, for 2 years, I never once saw that happen, either as a recruit, a Marine, or as a Drill Instructor.

    It wouldn't be like a Marine going to work with a weapon that he or she hasn't ever fired before, during their life as a Marine. That would be unconscionable.
    The standard of training is so uneven across the branches, and even within specific branches of service.

    Even if Marines and soliders are given great training in boot camp, once they move on to jobs where they are not handling firearms on a regular basis, those skills degrade.

    Marines aren't immune from shooting the clearing barrel, or doing stupid shit with their weapons. Don't try to tell me otherwise, I've seen it first hand.

    I know for a fact that that negligent discharges in Iraq and Afghanistan were a serious problem.

    I was working in the Pentagon after the surge in Iraq, and in some months more people were getting killed and injured from accidental discharges than from hostile fire. I heard the briefings and saw the stats on a regular basis. It was a big problem in Afghanistan too.

    Negligent discharges are even a nasty little secret in civilian police forces. Even a person who has carried a weapon everyday for years can become careless and negligent.

    People fuck up and make mistakes in spite of great training.

    Waveshaper is correct, the M-9 is typically carried with a round in the chamber.

    I don't know why anyone would want to give a recruiter a fucking rifle to carry when they are doing office work.

    @garkhal was way off base for criticizing General Odierno's comments on arming recruiters.
    Last edited by Absinthe Anecdote; 07-19-2015 at 04:52 PM.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •