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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Praying to God is Dumb

    Even if you are a believer in God, praying to him to ask him for anything makes no sense.

    Especially when you consider God's will and his plan.

    If it isn't his will for you to get whatever you are asking for, you aren't going to get it.

    If it is his will to for you to get what you are asking for, then your prayer is equally irrelevant.

    Let's say you have small child who has been in a car accident, the child is near death.

    Your prayers have absolutely no impact on God's will to save the child.

    If the child dies, some dumbass in your church will explain that God must have needed another little angel in heaven.

    If the child recovers, there will be great rejoicing and praising of God for answering the prayers to save the child, but if it wasn't his will to do it, no amount of prayer would save the child.

    You can get the exact same results praying to a fire hydrant.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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    I approach the question just a little differently.

    1) If you accept an omniscient God, then you accept that He already knows what all of our actions and choices will be.
    2) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that God's foreknowledge is simply knowledge, not fate or directive. Kind of like I always knew what my children would order if I took them our for fast food burgers, but I let them make up their own minds and tell me what they wanted.
    3) If you accept an omnipotent God, then you accept that He has the ability to change literally anything about anything at any time.
    4) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that He chooses not to interfere with the results of our choices.

    Since I was taught that God is omniscient, omnipotent and has gone well out of His way to ensure that we have the privilege of free will, it takes very little in the way of thought to take the 4 numbered points as givens in a conversation about this same God.

    4 is the big one.

    Pray for anything you want, but if you are praying to avoid the consequences of human choice, know that you are explicitly requesting God violate his primary promise in setting us free in the world.

    The only things you can pray for, and have any expectation to receive, amount to help controlling your own thoughts, emotions and behaviors. You can focus on being more empathetic, more understanding, more patient. But you can't get things changed, just how you perceive and respond to them.

    Interestingly enough, you can achieve the same goals through meditation . . ..
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    I approach the question just a little differently.

    1) If you accept an omniscient God, then you accept that He already knows what all of our actions and choices will be.
    2) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that God's foreknowledge is simply knowledge, not fate or directive. Kind of like I always knew what my children would order if I took them our for fast food burgers, but I let them make up their own minds and tell me what they wanted.
    3) If you accept an omnipotent God, then you accept that He has the ability to change literally anything about anything at any time.
    4) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that He chooses not to interfere with the results of our choices.

    Since I was taught that God is omniscient, omnipotent and has gone well out of His way to ensure that we have the privilege of free will, it takes very little in the way of thought to take the 4 numbered points as givens in a conversation about this same God.

    4 is the big one.

    Pray for anything you want, but if you are praying to avoid the consequences of human choice, know that you are explicitly requesting God violate his primary promise in setting us free in the world.

    The only things you can pray for, and have any expectation to receive, amount to help controlling your own thoughts, emotions and behaviors. You can focus on being more empathetic, more understanding, more patient. But you can't get things changed, just how you perceive and respond to them.

    Interestingly enough, you can achieve the same goals through meditation . . ..
    That is a rather healthy way of looking at, but it is certainly at odds with what the Christian Bible promises.


    Jesus Curses a Fig Tree

    Matthew 21:18-22 New International Version

    18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered.

    20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

    21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
    If one believes what the Christian bible says, that shouldn't matter.

    I agree with how you explained it, in that it allows the modern day Christain to cope with matters of faith.

    However, that way of thinking isn't in the source material, the Holy Bible promises something entirely different.

    It is hard to deny a clear failure to deliver on Matthew 21:21.

    PS

    Matthew 21:18 shows Jesus acting like a pouty little bitch if you ask me.

    He kills the fig tree because it had no figs?

    Think about all the tired, poor, and hungry travelers who might have enjoyed a fig the next year.

    Instead of blessing it to feed hungry people, he gets mad and curses the poor little fig tree, effectively screwing over future travelers.

    That is a clearly a dickhead move.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post

    PS

    Matthew 21:18 shows Jesus acting like a pouty little bitch if you ask me.

    He kills the fig tree because it had no figs?

    Think about all the tired, poor, and hungry travelers who might have enjoyed a fig the next year.

    Instead of blessing it to feed hungry people, he gets mad and curses the poor little fig tree, effectively screwing over future travelers.

    That is a clearly a dickhead move.
    Do you kiss your rabbi with that potty mouth?

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Do you kiss your rabbi with that potty mouth?
    No, I usually take him into the mikvah and give him a proper rogering.

    Shouldn't you be out infiltrating a Mason lodge?
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    ...and if you believe the Christian salvation story.

    You also accept that God created the vast majority of human souls, that he apparently loved, knowing good and well that after an exceedingly short time on Earth full of temptation, they would then spend an eternity in torment, weeping an gnashing their teeth burning in Hell.

    I find that difficult to reconcile.

    If you knew your child was going to choose a cyanide-laced bag of fries from the homeless bum outside so he could save $1.79, you would probably prevent it.
    You just hit pay dirt!

    So few Christains ever contemplate the Alpha and Omega in such a manner.

    God would be responsible for everything if he is real. All the good, but also the all the darkest evil too.

    Something that creates such darkness, and leaves us such a shitty set of instructions as the Christian Bible to avoid it does not seem competent at all.

    Far from it, he is a bungling hayseed. He is childlike with his creations, because he sets so many of us up for failure and destruction.

    Not unlike a kid who spends hours building a model ship, only to blow it to smithereens with firecrackers after a short while.

    Omniscient, omnipotent creator?

    Bullshit!

    A cosmic seven-year-old who lords over a weebles village with a can of lighter fluid and a lit match is more like it.
    Last edited by Absinthe Anecdote; 07-15-2015 at 05:55 AM.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    No, I usually take him into the mikvah and give him a proper rogering.
    Serious Question, How does one go about reconciling his hatred of all things religion with the fact that his life's work (collecting or analyzing intelligence) is being directed by those dedicated to bringing about a Greater Israel from the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Shouldn't you be out infiltrating a Mason lodge?
    Shouldn't you be following up on that lead Rainmaker gave you about the Mosque in Silver Spring instead of looking at Selfies of American Citizen's nutsacks stolen from their smart phones?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-15-2015 at 01:47 PM.

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    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    I approach the question just a little differently.

    1) If you accept an omniscient God, then you accept that He already knows what all of our actions and choices will be.
    2) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that God's foreknowledge is simply knowledge, not fate or directive. Kind of like I always knew what my children would order if I took them our for fast food burgers, but I let them make up their own minds and tell me what they wanted.
    3) If you accept an omnipotent God, then you accept that He has the ability to change literally anything about anything at any time.
    4) If you accept that we have free will, then you accept that He chooses not to interfere with the results of our choices.

    Since I was taught that God is omniscient, omnipotent and has gone well out of His way to ensure that we have the privilege of free will, it takes very little in the way of thought to take the 4 numbered points as givens in a conversation about this same God.

    4 is the big one.

    Pray for anything you want, but if you are praying to avoid the consequences of human choice, know that you are explicitly requesting God violate his primary promise in setting us free in the world.

    The only things you can pray for, and have any expectation to receive, amount to help controlling your own thoughts, emotions and behaviors. You can focus on being more empathetic, more understanding, more patient. But you can't get things changed, just how you perceive and respond to them.

    Interestingly enough, you can achieve the same goals through meditation . . ..
    ...and if you believe the Christian salvation story.

    You also accept that God created the vast majority of human souls, that he apparently loved, knowing good and well that after an exceedingly short time on Earth full of temptation, they would then spend an eternity in torment, weeping an gnashing their teeth burning in Hell.

    I find that difficult to reconcile.

    If you knew your child was going to choose a cyanide-laced bag of fries from the homeless bum outside so he could save $1.79, you would probably prevent it.
    Last edited by Bos Mutus; 07-15-2015 at 01:11 AM.
    The Voice of Reason

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    Senior Member LogDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    Darwin, Einstein, and Isaac Newton were also all religious...... Rainmaker refuses to be seduced by anyone's Dogma. Insha'Allah
    Figures, more rhetorical nonsense.

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    Figures, more rhetorical nonsense.
    What's nonsense is anyone trying to make an argument that Hitler and Stalin were really Atheistic Catholics because their parents made them attend church in 19th century Europe.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-17-2015 at 04:34 PM.

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