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Thread: Praying to God is Dumb

  1. #111
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    The Internet is one of the few places you can have these discussions. It is a battle of ideas, and I have yet to lose one on religion to the point I have run away from the argument.

    Unlike what just happened here with Rainmaker. He reversed nearly two years of rhetoric a few posts ago, and then promptly ran from the thread.

    I'm not surprised that he is embarrassed about that Pink Floyd video I posted, it mirrors the type of propaganda from the Society of Saint Pius X that he routinely quotes.
    Rainmaker's posted plenty of points for discussion

    . But as usual you want to stick with crying racist, posting boring rap videos or yelling at Jesus.

    Now, I notice you often reference the "Christian God" in your hate filled diatribes. But, I've never heard you lash out against the "Jewish God"

    I suspect this is because either A: you're Jewish and don't think they're the same God.....

    Or B: You're afraid of going on record, because you know someone could twist your words to label you an Anti Semite (and target you professionally later).

    In either case you're either A: a liar and a bigot or B: a hypocrite and a coward.

    Nomsayin?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 08-18-2015 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #112
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    AA and BM..........

    Not addressing this thread in its entirety and certainly the edges may be rough and replete with hyperbole but he raises some good points here.

    - Zionism at its core is not an inclusive theory.
    - While apartheid is overly strong (and the term got Jimmy Carter in trouble) the policies of Israel with regard to the Palestinians has many aspects of just that type of institution.
    - AIPAC, staffed by mostly US citizens has the interests of Israel first and foremost on it's agenda. While that is legal and certainly understandable, it is nonetheless held to some different standard than say a lobby for France or other friendly nation. Anyone who speaks out against a policy of Israel (no matter how right the position is or how wrong Israel's actions are) is painted as an anti-Semite.

    AA. This is what I meant by RM's façade slipping on occasion.
    There is a uniquely strong and special bond between the U.S. and Israel...I don't think there is an argument there.

    Certainly, U.S. Jews feel a kinship with Israel...also, I'm sure I've stated this before and I believe you've questioned me about it...Evangelical Christians, in particular, feel a religious obligation toward Israel and the entire Middle East as a sort of "God's War"...I felt that George W. Bush saw it that way and I think that's where you questioned me...this was a long while ago.

    It's no doubt...that Israel, being our close allies with rather unique ties, lives in a dangerous neighborhood. The Jewish people, I think, feel somewhat like a persecuted people throughout history...hard to argue that.

    As a persecuted people who are our friends and along with all the religious stuff...we have felt a special obligation to protect Israel.

    As a historically persecuted people, it's possible they get a bit defensive when they hear the Radical Traditionalist Catholics talk about how their return to Israel is the source of all the world's problems...and that the country of Israel has no right to exist...etc. etc. Ironically, our special treatment of Israel is probably directly related to the rhetoric from the Rainmen of the world, among others. Anti-Semitism is a real thing.

    As for me...I don't have an opinion on whether or not the Jews have a 3,000 year old right to the Holy Land...that's ancient history as far as I'm concerned. Their "right" to the land in modern history goes back maybe WWI and the booting out of the Ottoman Empire and placing it under British control in the Palestine Mandate...and eventually establishment of the State of Israel post WWII. I'm far from and expert on the whole deal.

    Sorry that the whole WWI thing didn't work out for the Palestinians...but we have what we have now...I'm sure if the Ottoman's won, it would've been different, but they didn't so it ain't. To the victor goes the spoils...sorry, buds...I'm not entirely opposed to a Palestinian State, seems reasonable to me if they would be happy with one, but they won't unless it includes getting rid of the State of Israel...but it gets a bit complicated for me.

    Unlike Rainman...what Israel is up to is not the center of my world. It's an issue to be dealt with, but, I don't feel it's the core of the entire of the world's problems...I just don't. They are our friends...good friends...BFFs even...I do feel there are groups in our country that will defend Israel with everything we have...I'm not one of them.

    I only think one Jew is Supreme...and I married her.
    Last edited by Bos Mutus; 08-17-2015 at 11:18 PM.
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  3. #113
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    There is a uniquely strong and special bond between the U.S. and Israel...I don't think there is an argument there.

    Certainly, U.S. Jews feel a kinship with Israel...also, I'm sure I've stated this before and I believe you've questioned me about it...Evangelical Christians, in particular, feel a religious obligation toward Israel and the entire Middle East as a sort of "God's War"...I felt that George W. Bush saw it that way and I think that's where you questioned me...this was a long while ago.

    It's no doubt...that Israel, being our close allies with rather unique ties, lives in a dangerous neighborhood. The Jewish people, I think, feel somewhat like a persecuted people throughout history...hard to argue that.

    As a persecuted people who are our friends and along with all the religious stuff...we have felt a special obligation to protect Israel.

    As a historically persecuted people, it's possible they get a bit defensive when they hear the Radical Traditionalist Catholics talk about how their return to Israel is the source of all the world's problems...and that the country of Israel has no right to exist...etc. etc. Ironically, our special treatment of Israel is probably directly related to the rhetoric from the Rainmen of the world, among others. Anti-Semitism is a real thing.

    As for me...I don't have an opinion on whether or not the Jews have a 3,000 year old right to the Holy Land...that's ancient history as far as I'm concerned. Their "right" to the land in modern history goes back maybe WWI and the booting out of the Ottoman Empire and placing it under British control in the Palestine Mandate...and eventually establishment of the State of Israel post WWII. I'm far from and expert on the whole deal.

    Sorry that the whole WWI thing didn't work out for the Palestinians...but we have what we have now...I'm sure if the Ottoman's won, it would've been different, but they didn't so it ain't. To the victor goes the spoils...sorry, buds...I'm not entirely opposed to a Palestinian State, seems reasonable to me if they would be happy with one, but they won't unless it includes getting rid of the State of Israel...but it gets a bit complicated for me.

    Unlike Rainman...what Israel is up to is not the center of my world. It's an issue to be dealt with, but, I don't feel it's the core of the entire of the world's problems...I just don't. They are our friends...good friends...BFFs even...I do feel there are groups in our country that will defend Israel with everything we have...I'm not one of them.

    I only think one Jew is Supreme...and I married her.
    I have no issue with anything you said but I stand by the points I raised. Again, my post was not an endorsement of RM's positions but merely a remark that his words are not without merit. At least some of his words.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    I view it as a retreat from his numerous racist rants against blacks and Jews. He has clearly been exposed as buying into a racist ideology. It is nothing more than damage control.

    Do I really need to go dig up the two years of his posts? Certainly you must have read a few.

    I am hostile toward all religions, I own it. I am hostile against the belief in God, not people.

    He is hostile against a certain classes of people.

    A very big difference.
    As I posted in response to BM, my post was not an endorsement but also not a total en masse condemnation. I have read most of RM's posts and you know my feelings on them in general.
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  5. #115
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    I rest my case.
    Yeah, ok for this one I have nothing
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  6. #116
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    As I posted in response to BM, my post was not an endorsement but also not a total en masse condemnation. I have read most of RM's posts and you know my feelings on them in general.
    Of course it is possible to frame a rational argument that questions our level of support to Israel. However, I disagree with the notion that doing so automatically gets the person branded as an anti-Semite.

    You know as well as I do that Rainmaker does not normally frame his objections in a rational and coherent manner.

    He only attempted to do so this time after being pushed into a corner after we uncovered the source of his talking points.

    As for me, I readily admit to getting in the mud and wrestling with him. I can get just as outrageous as he does, but I win. It was only after being throughly trounced that he momentarily changed tactics.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

  7. #117
    Administrator Mjölnir's Avatar
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    All,

    Let's dial back from the personal insults on community members.

    thank you

    The most important six inches on the battlefield ... is between your ears.

  8. #118
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Kinda off topic but your mentioning Emanuel reminded me of a fairly typical mindset I encountered among US-Israel dual citizens.

    Turns out her parents had really pushed her to join the IDF (Israel Defense Force).

    I asked if her parents had been born in the US and she said yes. I then asked her if her parents had ever suggested serving in the US military. The look she gave me was akin to that I would have gotten if I had shit on her desk.
    TJ appreciating your 'neutral position' but, I'm sure you're well aware of the scale of this systemic conflict of interest within our institutions.

    This is why I say it doesn't matter which political party you put in office, when there are thousands of Dual Citizen's embedded in key positions throughout the system.

    Neo liberal = neo conservative = neo nazi.

    "Antisemitism" only exists in this country, because of people like Rahm Emanuel.

    The Queen of Man's country. His Bother is the architect of Obamacare and thinks people are selfish to want to live past 75,... Father was a terrorist that specialized in blowing up buses full of civilians. Nice people.

    http://www.middleeast.org/archives/1999_01_06.htm
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 08-18-2015 at 03:35 AM.

  9. #119
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Of course it is possible to frame a rational argument that questions our level of support to Israel. However, I disagree with the notion that doing so automatically gets the person branded as an anti-Semite.

    You know as well as I do that Rainmaker does not normally frame his objections in a rational and coherent manner.

    He only attempted to do so this time after being pushed into a corner after we uncovered the source of his talking points.

    As for me, I readily admit to getting in the mud and wrestling with him. I can get just as outrageous as he does, but I win. It was only after being throughly trounced that he momentarily changed tactics.
    Well, certainly it is possible but equally possible to be labeled anti-Semite and I have witnessed it first hand (Jimmy Carter being the most prominent example.

    As to the rest. No argument, wasn't my point.

    Interesting point about the anti-Semite label. If I were to post a rant about Italians. Point out their horrible driving, crazy politics, etc... no one would label me an anti-Catholic yet the percentage of Catholics in Italy exceeds that of Jews in Israel. To criticize Israel by itself is not anti-Semetic.
    Last edited by TJMAC77SP; 08-18-2015 at 03:26 AM.
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  10. #120
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    . To criticize Israel by itself is not anti-Semetic.
    No, it doesn't. But if someone's idea of an 'insult' is 'you have a rabbi' or ' you eat Shabbat dinner'....they're not criticizing Israel or Zionists
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