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Thread: Praying to God is Dumb

  1. #11
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    You just hit pay dirt!

    So few Christains ever contemplate the Alpha and Omega in such a manner.

    God would be responsible for everything if he is real. All the good, but also the all the darkest evil too.

    Something that creates such darkness, and leaves us such a shitty set of instructions as the Christian Bible to avoid it does not seem competent at all.

    Far from it, he is a bungling hayseed. He is childlike with his creations, because he sets so many of us up for failure and destruction. Not unlike a kid who spends hours building a model ship, only to blow it to smithereens with firecrackers after a short while.

    Omniscient, omnipotent creator?

    Bullshit!

    A cosmic seven-year-old who lords over a weebles village with a can of lighter fluid and a lit match is more like it.
    I'll take Luciferian Doctrine for $200 Alex.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    My Mom passed away while I was a Christian. She was kind of a Christian, too, but not the Born-again, say a prayer to be saved kind that I had become at the time.

    So...I prayed and convinced myself that God told me with that "little voice in my head"...that minutes or seconds prior to her death, Jesus appeared to her and she accepted Him into her heart. Hallelujah.

    That is kind of the good thing there...no matter what or how you lived your life, you only needed to accept Jesus a second before you die and it's milk and honey with streets paved with gold for you...so, that's how they reconcile it, I think...convince themselves that in that last minute when their loved on is in a coma, jesus comes to them and says, "Yo, here I am" and that person accepted Him into their heart.

    Seems that was the answer to all the millions of people who lived before Jesus came to Earth and never had the opportunity to accept him. During the 3 days that Jesus was dead, he went into Hell or purgatory or wherever to give all the dead people that chance to accept Him into their hearts. Seems like, at that point, it's a pretty easy call, really.

    ...Had a guy that worked in our building pass away a couple years ago. One of his good friends spoke at the funeral about how he has been on Dean's case about accepting the Lord for years...Dean always refused. So, Dean got Leukemia in his 70s, and this friend spent some time with him when he was close to death. So, Dean was facing his mortality and finally started taking this whole Jesus thing seriously, but he'd said Dean felt guilty and hypocritical that he refused God his whole life and was looking for him now. This friend explained God's mercy and there at the very end, led Dean in prayer to accept Jesus. Saved in the nick of time, Dean died a short while later.

    I think you're right...we like to think there is a Heaven because it makes us feel better....live forever! Some parts of it make me scratch my head. There supposed will be no sin in Heaven...so, we all sin, will we remember our sins, we will still want to do them? If not, are we still the same person up there? Will we remember the people in our Earth life that didn't get in? How could we live eternally joyous knowing our loved ones are being eternally tormented? If we won't remember even our loved ones...just who will we be up there?

    Then there is the Andrea Yates thing, as I've brought up before. She killed her 5 children because she was afraid they were gonna turn against God. Now, typically, Christianity will teach us that children go to heaven. It's too horrible to think otherwise. But when you compare eternity in Heaven to the few short years we get to spend on Earth...Andrea Yates did her children a HUGE favor by getting them into Heaven before they had a chance to screw up their eternity as adults on Earth. I mean who cares about the 80 or 90 years we get on Earth in relation to eternity? If you believe that children automatically go to heaven, we really should kill all the babies. Allowing them to live only gives them opportunity to screw up their eternities.
    Regarding what Heaven will be like: My understanding is that we will spend the whole time singing and dancing and worshipping God. To me that doesn't sound all that exciting.

    In Mark 12:18-25 The Sadducees asked an interesting question. It is too bad they didn't ask more like this. Moses taught that if your brother's wife dies you should marry her and take care of her. They tell a story of seven brothers who in order marry the same woman and die with no offspring. They ask who's wife she will be in Heaven.

    Jesus gives a pretty veiled response: Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.

    If I'm understanding Jesus correctly there is no marriage in Heaven. I assume that also means no sex. We are all just a bunch of Angels singing and dancing and worshipping. I'm not all that convinced that Heaven is as great as it sounds. It's probably better than the alternative of being on fire but not by much.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Bos Mutus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Regarding what Heaven will be like: My understanding is that we will spend the whole time singing and dancing and worshipping God. To me that doesn't sound all that exciting.

    In Mark 12:18-25 The Sadducees asked an interesting question. It is too bad they didn't ask more like this. Moses taught that if your brother's wife dies you should marry her and take care of her. They tell a story of seven brothers who in order marry the same woman and die with no offspring. They ask who's wife she will be in Heaven.

    Jesus gives a pretty veiled response: Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.

    If I'm understanding Jesus correctly there is no marriage in Heaven. I assume that also means no sex. We are all just a bunch of Angels singing and dancing and worshipping. I'm not all that convinced that Heaven is as great as it sounds. It's probably better than the alternative of being on fire but not by much.
    We will still have Free Will?
    The Voice of Reason

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    Administrator UncaRastus's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that you can find 'Free Willy' on Netflix.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos Mutus View Post
    We will still have Free Will?


    Who is the King of Tyre described Here.. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/...&byte=3114629? in EZK 28? Did he have free will?

    Who is the morning star?

    Doubt is the Devil who exists in the garden of your mind.....

    Now, Chew on this and wash it down with some kool aide......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP318pbmo_g
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-16-2015 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member LogDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    So I thought I would piggyback on this thread. I grew up in Southwest Missouri as the son of a Pentecostal Pastor. I haven't been to church in years but I'm still friends with a lot of Christians just because I grew up with them or went to school with them. In the last year, two people I know have lost a family member.

    The first person is a mother who lost her 20 year old son. He overdosed on methamphetamine. Even though he was passed out, his friends didn't want to take him to the hospital for fear of being arrested. They just dumped his body. His mother posted a rather long plea for those who were involved to come forward and help the investigation. She also went into this long rant about how she has prayed to God and that God told her that her son is in Heaven.

    The other person is someone who I went to school with. Her brother committed suicide a few weeks ago. She has been posting things like, "God needed another Angel" or that her brother is in Heaven watching over her.

    Here's my question, how can either of these people reconcile these posts with their beliefs? If a drug addict and someone who committed suicide are both in Heaven then isn't pretty much everyone going to make it? In both of these cases, I think the people are having a hard time dealing with the vengeful side of God. People believe in Christianity because they want to believe in something after this life. That provides comfort for them as they live their life. The problem is when loved ones die they are left with only two options. 1.) Their loved one is being tormented in Hell because the God they serve sent him there or 2.) Their loved one is in Heaven because everyone goes to Heaven which makes it pointless to pick any religion at all.

    Any of you have friends like this? I really want to say something to these people but I figure it is probably best to just let them grieve. It would be an asshole move to point out that if there is a Heaven their loved ones aren't in it.
    People believe loved ones who died have gone to Heaven do so as a coping mechanism to help them understand and accept the death of a loved one. It's their way of dealing with the issue of death. Is it a healthy way? Who knows but we do know that death occurs every day and at some point we'll all be affected by the death of a loved one or of a close friend. Some people are better at accepting and dealing with death than others and for them their coping mechanism work. Whether you believe in God or not, if a person grieving wants to believe their loved one is in Heaven then it's best to let them have that thought if it helps them with their grieving process. Personally, I don't believe in God or the concept of Heaven but if someone wants to think their loved one is with God or in Heaven then I have no problem with that.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    People believe loved ones who died have gone to Heaven do so as a coping mechanism to help them understand and accept the death of a loved one. It's their way of dealing with the issue of death. Is it a healthy way? Who knows but we do know that death occurs every day and at some point we'll all be affected by the death of a loved one or of a close friend. Some people are better at accepting and dealing with death than others and for them their coping mechanism work. Whether you believe in God or not, if a person grieving wants to believe their loved one is in Heaven then it's best to let them have that thought if it helps them with their grieving process. Personally, I don't believe in God or the concept of Heaven but if someone wants to think their loved one is with God or in Heaven then I have no problem with that.
    It makes perfect sense for people to imagine their loved ones in Heaven after death. I get that part. What I'm saying is that in these specific cases the people involved have to pretty much abandon their religious beliefs to do it. In the case of the overdose, maybe the mom believes what Bos Mutus said above. Maybe her son even in his drug induced state of mind realized he was dying and asked god for forgiveness. I guess I can see that though it probably isn't likely. If he realized he was dying he would have called 911 instead. In the case of the suicide, I don't think you can ask for forgiveness before you kill yourself. If that were possible, wouldn't it make sense for every Christian to just off their self? Why bother trying to live out the rest of this life? Just ask God for forgiveness then put a bullet in your head.

    In the two cases I mentioned, the people's belief in God is actually hindering their ability to cope. An atheist who doesn't believe in the afterlife would simply cope with the fact that their loved one is gone. Sort of like losing a pet dog. You are sad for a few days but then you just get over it. You don't comfort yourself by pretending your dog is in Heaven (well maybe some people do). If you believe in Hell and try to live your life to avoid going there that means admitting your family member is in Hell when they refused to live how you are living. If you don't believe that, why would you ever waste your time with religion?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Regarding what Heaven will be like: My understanding is that we will spend the whole time singing and dancing and worshipping God. To me that doesn't sound all that exciting.

    In Mark 12:18-25 The Sadducees asked an interesting question. It is too bad they didn't ask more like this. Moses taught that if your brother's wife dies you should marry her and take care of her. They tell a story of seven brothers who in order marry the same woman and die with no offspring. They ask who's wife she will be in Heaven.

    Jesus gives a pretty veiled response: Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not God of the dead, but of the living. You are quite wrong.

    If I'm understanding Jesus correctly there is no marriage in Heaven. I assume that also means no sex. We are all just a bunch of Angels singing and dancing and worshipping. I'm not all that convinced that Heaven is as great as it sounds. It's probably better than the alternative of being on fire but not by much.
    Jesus saves.... Moses invests....

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    People believe loved ones who died have gone to Heaven do so as a coping mechanism to help them understand and accept the death of a loved one. It's their way of dealing with the issue of death. Is it a healthy way? Who knows but we do know that death occurs every day and at some point we'll all be affected by the death of a loved one or of a close friend. Some people are better at accepting and dealing with death than others and for them their coping mechanism work. Whether you believe in God or not, if a person grieving wants to believe their loved one is in Heaven then it's best to let them have that thought if it helps them with their grieving process. Personally, I don't believe in God or the concept of Heaven but if someone wants to think their loved one is with God or in Heaven then I have no problem with that.
    Agree, I think it's natural for most people to believe in something, because, The Human Mind has a need for Hope and Purpose.....

    There is nothing more damaging to the human mind than believing in Nothing.... ,You end up Angry with Rest of the world (who naturally believe in a power greater than themselves) and resort to insulting people for believing in an after-life because, you are not able to perceive that something beyond your own day to day control or reason could possibly exist.

    Believing in nothing greater than yourself is the left hand path recipe for ruin, that leads you to Thick-headed arrogance, unhappiness and finally depression...

    It's no coincidence that the most murderous maniacs of the 20th century were Atheists.... Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot etc
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 07-15-2015 at 06:50 PM.

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    Senior Member USN - Retired's Avatar
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    Famous lines from the James Bond movie "Casino Royale"...

    Steven Obanno: Do you believe in God, Mr. Le Chiffre?
    Le Chiffre: No. I believe in a reasonable rate of return.



    http://www.movpins.com/big/MV5BMTM2M...ge-picture.jpg
    Last edited by USN - Retired; 07-21-2015 at 07:26 AM.
    As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others

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