Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Say it ain't so!

  1. #1
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)

    Say it ain't so!

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/politi...ort/index.html

    Military members don't practice the honesty and integrity they preach? I, for one, am shocked.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,928
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/politi...ort/index.html

    Military members don't practice the honesty and integrity they preach? I, for one, am shocked.
    Honesty and integrity? You mean that shit they beat INTO you in basic training, that NCOs beat OUT of you when you get to your first duty station because it gets in their way? Yeah, I know what you're talking about!
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  3. #3
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,928
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Let's be realistic: people lie. And with the military being a CYA environment, it only exacerbates that problem. Even more, people are being tasked with workloads that are so large and deadlines that are too soon to be completed by ethical means.

    And before anyone slams officers because of this article, remember that enlisted are no better. The difference is, all we can lie about is dumb shit like whether or not task that we were supposed to complete before we went home for the day got done.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  4. #4
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Let's be realistic: people lie. And with the military being a CYA environment, it only exacerbates that problem. Even more, people are being tasked with workloads that are so large and deadlines that are too soon to be completed by ethical means.

    And before anyone slams officers because of this article, remember that enlisted are no better. The difference is, all we can lie about is dumb shit like whether or not task that we were supposed to complete before we went home for the day got done.
    There is no doubt that everything you say here is true. I guess what surprises me most is that the report was even done. Who in their right mind actually believed that people in the military are more honest than their civilian counterparts?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,928
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    There is no doubt that everything you say here is true. I guess what surprises me most is that the report was even done. Who in their right mind actually believed that people in the military are more honest than their civilian counterparts?
    You know what I'd like to see happen? The Air Force should do an experiment - take recruits and bypass basic training. Just simply take a whole day and where they're issued uniforms and then they're given CBTs on how to wear it and rank recognition. Then ship them straight off to tech school.

    I want to see if basic training really even matters. Like, would they actually be different from the rest of the Airmen that DID go? The Army and Navy can try this too, by the way. What many people don't know is that the Marine Corps DOES have enlisted Marines who've never been to boot camp. They're members of the "President's Own" band. I don't know any of them personally, but I can't seem to find any complaints on the internet from Marines saying that the President's Own bandmembers are a bunch of undisciplined shitbags. If anyone can find it, let me know.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  6. #6
    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,055
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    What many people don't know is that the Marine Corps DOES have enlisted Marines who've never been to boot camp. They're members of the "President's Own" band. I don't know any of them personally, but I can't seem to find any complaints on the internet from Marines saying that the President's Own bandmembers are a bunch of undisciplined shitbags. If anyone can find it, let me know.
    True, but not really painting the full picture.

    For example:

    Members of the President's Own automatically enter the Marine Corps as a SSgt and are enlisted specifically for duty with the President's own, they will never do anything else.

    Almost all have degrees in music, more than half (last I had heard) had graduate degrees in music. Most have been professional musicians for years.

    Members of the Presidents own never handle weapons; they are not expected to do anything other than be in the band.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.

  7. #7
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You know what I'd like to see happen? The Air Force should do an experiment - take recruits and bypass basic training. Just simply take a whole day and where they're issued uniforms and then they're given CBTs on how to wear it and rank recognition. Then ship them straight off to tech school.

    I want to see if basic training really even matters. Like, would they actually be different from the rest of the Airmen that DID go? The Army and Navy can try this too, by the way. What many people don't know is that the Marine Corps DOES have enlisted Marines who've never been to boot camp. They're members of the "President's Own" band. I don't know any of them personally, but I can't seem to find any complaints on the internet from Marines saying that the President's Own bandmembers are a bunch of undisciplined shitbags. If anyone can find it, let me know.
    I think it would make a large and negative difference to do as you suggest. Basic training is so much more than learning to wear the uniform and who and how to salute.

    The President's Own has a very limited duty sphere so really can't be compared to a line Marine (as I am sure any on the MTF will attest to).
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  8. #8
    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,055
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    I read the article yesterday, then teased an Army LTC buddy about it.

    Overall, I think there are practices that are unacceptable, and some of this is a culture/perception/mentality where people can find a way to make a statement that is not an outright lie, but frames a statement or answer in the best possible way. This is not just an Army issue, or an officer issue ... it exists in every branch and in the enlisted ranks as well.

    I saw a commander who told an Admiral that he was unable to meet tasking because the commander didn't have enough people to do the task, as he had been reporting to that Admiral for 18 months ... it was an awkward room to be in -- he took the rare step of saying 'no'. He went on to be successful (currently a 2-star and a close mentor of mine).

    ID-ing people who are less than honest is usually easy and while I am not perfect, I generally do steer clear of folks who are.
    The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    3,928
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I think it would make a large and negative difference to do as you suggest. Basic training is so much more than learning to wear the uniform and who and how to salute.

    The President's Own has a very limited duty sphere so really can't be compared to a line Marine (as I am sure any on the MTF will attest to).
    Here's the thing, though - most of what's instilled in basic training all goes to shit within months, if not weeks, of an FNG reporting to his new duty station anyway. So really, what's the point? I'm just curious to know whether or not basic training really makes a difference.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  10. #10
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You know what I'd like to see happen? The Air Force should do an experiment - take recruits and bypass basic training. Just simply take a whole day and where they're issued uniforms and then they're given CBTs on how to wear it and rank recognition. Then ship them straight off to tech school.

    I want to see if basic training really even matters. Like, would they actually be different from the rest of the Airmen that DID go? The Army and Navy can try this too, by the way. What many people don't know is that the Marine Corps DOES have enlisted Marines who've never been to boot camp. They're members of the "President's Own" band. I don't know any of them personally, but I can't seem to find any complaints on the internet from Marines saying that the President's Own bandmembers are a bunch of undisciplined shitbags. If anyone can find it, let me know.
    It would make very little difference. Look at many of our officers who attend nothing more than a short OTS before becoming active duty.

    Air Force basic training is now changing week 8 from being part of the "Warrior Week" or whatever they call it now and turning it into a full week of nothing but briefings about SARC, etc.

    The 2nd AF and AETC are changing Tech School to take time away from technical training and start including more of the SARC, resiliency, etc type stuff as well. We were briefed yesterday that beginning in may our 8 hour training day is turning into 6 hours of Tech training and 2 hours to make sure everyone has feelings and care about each other. That is 25% of our training time. It's not happening in all the schools, but in a large majority.

    On day one we now issue the students an "inspiration survey". We then do it again before they graduate to see if we have "inspired" them.

    Training "warfighters" is no longer a priority. We are just ensuring that we teach grown adults how to act like grown adults. Basic training is not needed for that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •