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Thread: Joining the Air Force at 17

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    News flash, 68K a year does suck.

    It is nothing for a guy your age to brag about.
    I got out and I'm making 34k a yr because fuck doing gov contractor or GS work. I'm civil service employee in a mid size fire dept and I love my job. I feed my kids, keep a roof over their head. So that 68 a yr being shitty is relative.

    Went from making mid 60s while active duty including SDAP, jump and other allowances as a TACP to making 34 and being much happier. Seems like it's not so bad for me. Being a full time FF in a decent town is pretty awesome.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggs View Post
    I got out and I'm making 34k a yr because fuck doing gov contractor or GS work. I'm civil service employee in a mid size fire dept and I love my job. I feed my kids, keep a roof over their head. So that 68 a yr being shitty is relative.

    Went from making mid 60s while active duty including SDAP, jump and other allowances as a TACP to making 34 and being much happier. Seems like it's not so bad for me. Being a full time FF in a decent town is pretty awesome.
    For some people, their happiness and success is gauged by the amount of zeros in their paychecks...even if it's at the expense of being able to enjoy their lives.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    For some people, their happiness and success is gauged by the amount of zeros in their paychecks...even if it's at the expense of being able to enjoy their lives.
    Very good point.

    I got married at my 10 year point in the military and my priorities about my career really changed, once we adopted our daughter things again changed. I enjoy myself a lot more appreciate things a lot more. The mliitary isn't the 'end all be all' for me like it once was.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggs View Post
    I got out and I'm making 34k a yr because fuck doing gov contractor or GS work. I'm civil service employee in a mid size fire dept and I love my job. I feed my kids, keep a roof over their head. So that 68 a yr being shitty is relative.

    Went from making mid 60s while active duty including SDAP, jump and other allowances as a TACP to making 34 and being much happier. Seems like it's not so bad for me. Being a full time FF in a decent town is pretty awesome.
    I don't get where 68K sucks. I only make 60K (only counting my GS job, and not my AF Reserve pay), but to put things into perspective, the median FAMILY income in Norfolk is 51K. Now THAT sucks for a family to live off of, and sucks even more when you consider the fact that the very definition of "median" means that 50% of families in the city live on less than that (and Juggs might even disagree with me on this, if he's the sole breadwinner or his wife works part time and only contributes less than an amount that, when combined with his salary, totals 51K or less). But relatively speaking, since my salary alone is more than what at least 50% of whole families in the city make; I don't think that what I make is anything to be ashamed of.

    I think that the big problem here is that we're so well compensated on active duty in the military, that too many of us really don't know the definition of "suck" when it comes salary.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 02-27-2015 at 02:41 PM.
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    I've said it before, and usually got told I'm wrong and to shut up, but . . ..

    Few IN the military realize how well compensated they really are.

    When I left uniform, I got a GS-12/1 on the Rest of the US pay chart, and that new gross income was LESS than I was receiving in the same location as an active duty enlisted puke.

    We compensate the military pretty well, today.
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

  6. #56
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    I've said it before, and usually got told I'm wrong and to shut up, but . . ..

    Few IN the military realize how well compensated they really are.

    When I left uniform, I got a GS-12/1 on the Rest of the US pay chart, and that new gross income was LESS than I was receiving in the same location as an active duty enlisted puke.

    We compensate the military pretty well, today.
    Try commenting on any of the "Times" facebook posts concerning military pay, and mention that you're now GS civilian. They all seem to think that anyone with a "GS" in their paygrade makes more than anyone in military. I'm a GS-11 Step 2, and that WOULD put me on par with a 2-year E5 if I didn't have to pay for medical insurance (and into my pension plan... and TSP, which I have to 5% pay into, if I want a retirement anywhere near as good as what the military gets WITHOUT their TSP). Yet, I've got E7's and E8's telling me to "shut the fuck up," because I "make more than they do."
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 02-27-2015 at 06:58 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    I've said it before, and usually got told I'm wrong and to shut up, but . . ..

    Few IN the military realize how well compensated they really are.

    When I left uniform, I got a GS-12/1 on the Rest of the US pay chart, and that new gross income was LESS than I was receiving in the same location as an active duty enlisted puke.

    We compensate the military pretty well, today.
    ... and even when I was in, too.

    I joined in '84 as an A1C and retired in '10 as a MSgt. Now, I'll admit my wife also worked for much of the time I was in, but due to the frequent moves she never got far up the pay hierarchy and usually worked at jobs paying slightly above minimum wage.

    Anyway, we never had any financial problems. We always had enough to pay for everything we needed for ourselves and our kids, most of what we wanted, and still had plenty left over to save and invest. Of course, it helped that neither of us have extravagant "wants".

    My last three years on AD I was making more than 70K. And this was for a guy without a degree.

    I never understood all the, "Oh, woe is me," whining I heard throughout my career about being so underpaid and impoverished. I got paid the same as them and I was doing just fine, thanks. I dunno, maybe I was paid from the double-secret military pay scale and didn't know it.

    It might be before your time, but in 2000 there was an infamous article published in the Washington Post and written by a former member of the Congressional Budget Office entitled, "Our GIs Earn Enough." In it, she made a decent-enough case that military compensation didn't actually suck as much as everyone seemed to believe. Well, from the uproar it created in the rank-and-file military you would have thought the god-hating commies themselves had descended into main-street USA and canceled weekends forever. Thankfully, some SrA wrote a sappy, ad hominem "reply" that got emailed around the world a hundred times and reinforced everyone's certainty that we all lived in suckville and made everybody feel better. I just don't get people.

    Now I get 36K for staying home and sitting on my ass. God bless 'Murca.
    Last edited by BENDER56; 02-27-2015 at 07:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    ... and even when I was in, too.

    I joined in '84 as an A1C and retired in '10 as a MSgt. Now, I'll admit my wife also worked for much of the time I was in, but due to the frequent moves she never got far up the pay hierarchy and usually worked at jobs paying slightly above minimum wage.

    Anyway, we never had any financial problems. We always had enough to pay for everything we needed for ourselves and our kids, most of what we wanted, and still had plenty left over to save and invest. Of course, it helped that neither of us have extravagant "wants".

    My last three years on AD I was making more than 70K. And this was for a guy without a degree.

    I never understood all the, "Oh, woe is me," whining I heard throughout my career about being so underpaid and impoverished. I got paid the same as them and I was doing just fine, thanks. I dunno, maybe I was paid from the double-secret military pay scale and didn't know it.

    It might be before your time, but in 2000 there was an infamous article published in the Washington Post and written by a former member of the Congressional Budget Office entitled, "Our GIs Earn Enough." In it, she made a decent-enough case that military compensation didn't actually suck as much as everyone seemed to believe. Well, from the uproar it created in the rank-and-file military you would have thought the god-hating commies themselves had descended into main-street USA and canceled weekends forever. Thankfully, some SrA wrote a sappy, ad hominem "reply" that got emailed around the world a hundred times and reinforced everyone's certainty that we all lived in suckville and made everybody feel better. I just don't get people.

    Now I get 36K for staying home and sitting on my ass. God bless 'Murca.
    The best part about that article was the SrA who wrote it was in a desirebale career field. They tried to make it sound like everyone in the military could get out tomorrow and command 100K per year. If I'm not mistaken the SrA was a computer programer or something.

    I kind of wish a SrA from a different career field would write a rebuttal to it. "Hi I'm SrA XXX. I'm part of the 11th Services Squadron. At my job working in the gym I hand out towels, manage the squadron sports leagues, and help people check out equipment. If I got out tomorrow I could get a job at the YMCA for $7 an hour. Instead I'm making almost $50K working here"

    P.S. I'm not knocking Services. I'm aware that working at a gym is one of many things they do. I will say this though. When people are in trouble and can't work their normal job where do we send them until their legal situation is resolved? Yep, they go work at the Gym. How hard could it be if it's assumed anyone in the military could take over the job with no training?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I don't get where 68K sucks. I only make 60K (only counting my GS job, and not my AF Reserve pay), but to put things into perspective, the median FAMILY income in Norfolk is 51K. Now THAT sucks for a family to live off of, and sucks even more when you consider the fact that the very definition of "median" means that 50% of families in the city live on less than that (and Juggs might even disagree with me on this, if he's the sole breadwinner or his wife works part time and only contributes less than an amount that, when combined with his salary, totals 51K or less). But relatively speaking, since my salary alone is more than what at least 50% of whole families in the city make; I don't think that what I make is anything to be ashamed of.

    I think that the big problem here is that we're so well compensated on active duty in the military, that too many of us really don't know the definition of "suck" when it comes salary.
    Nope the sole breadwinner thank goodness. My wife is paid well for what she does. I've done the samething when folks bitch about pay in the military. You've got a better benefits package, usually better pay and you're very unlikely to be laid off compared to civil servants in smaller towns. Also compared to most military members many firefighters spend many nights away from their families as well. Miss holidays and birthdays. Plus in the military you get pay raises for doing your job. You can even be shitty at your job and get a pay raise.
    Last edited by Juggs; 02-27-2015 at 11:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    I've said it before, and usually got told I'm wrong and to shut up, but . . ..

    Few IN the military realize how well compensated they really are.

    When I left uniform, I got a GS-12/1 on the Rest of the US pay chart, and that new gross income was LESS than I was receiving in the same location as an active duty enlisted puke.

    We compensate the military pretty well, today.
    The military overall is VERY well compensated for our work. While taking into account that the military is not really comparable to a civilian job -- if you don't like it you can't just quit (unless you desert) and you could be asked to give your life.

    I would ask, how many companies would take a high school graduate with no training and pay them roughly $21k per year (avg for an E3) add in about 15k in benefits (free medical, free dental, valuation of their pension, tax fee housing allowance or housing provided etc.) and then pay them while they are trained for their job (1 month to sometimes 18+ months); add in eligibility for 30 days of paid leave from our first day of employment vice a graduated system (which usually at good companies starts at 7 or 10 days per year -- unpaid), granted we have to take leave where sometimes a civilian may not, but we also get time off work to go to medical & dental -- readiness is part of our job etc.

    Now, at my level with all my pay & allowances I gross right under $130k per year and I have quite a bit of responsibility associated with my job. My wife's income as a GS13 is right at $100k and she has quite a bit less 'responsibility' than I do.

    I will say where I think where the military starts to get undercompensated is at the senior enlisted & even more so at the senior officer grades -- when comparing their levels of responsibility etc. to a corresponding job in the civilian world.

    Compare the salary of a Strike Group Commander (O7) or Division Commander (O8) who are in charge of roughly 20,000 people, multi-million dollar budgets and billions of dollars in equipment & property and they are making about $215k per year ... or one of the service chiefs (O10) who would bring in around $300k before the Executive Schedule limits kick in but are basically in charge of the equivilant of a multi-billion dollar corporation with hundreds of thousands of employees ... I am not saying we should dramatically increase their pay but we should be realistic and while they do make pretty good money compared to an E3, they are pretty undercompensated for their level of responsibility as compared to the civilian world.
    Last edited by Stalwart; 02-28-2015 at 03:05 AM.
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