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Thread: Joining the Air Force at 17

  1. #41
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    You mean starting your life in debt (that can't even be discharged through bankruptcy) can affect your net worth and could possibly limit your future options?? Were did you ever get a silly idea like that from? Your parents?? You are obviously not college "material"!
    Good point. I got a bachelor's and a master's through TA and the GI Bill, and I don't owe anyone a dime. And I STILL have 19 months of GI Bill that I just gave my wife - and I could've had more had I been patient and not used the GI Bill while on active duty.

    If I could go back and do it over, I would. But only one term.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Karl Marx made similar arguments in The Communist Manifesto .
    Rainmaker's not an economist.

    maybe some terminology. what part? the value of labor? Marx wasn't exactly a "Marxist". Marxism (just like any other theory) gets corrupted when you put the human element into it.

    Everything today is set up as barrier to entry. The Problem is not with college per se. the problem is that you need college to even apply for a job that pays a living wage. If You have to indebt yourself to do it than it's a Tax. Why? Because, the government sets the table that way.

    Government Regulations are lobbied for by Big Corporations as a barrier to entry to companies that can't afford to comply with the stupidity. Compliance with stupid laws is a Tax.

    offshoring jobs and importing cheap labor for the jobs that can't be off-shored is destroying our country. It's not the 1880's anymore we don't need hordes of 3rd world immigrants and internationalist profiteers with dual loyalties fleecing the country.

    I believe that Once, you take God out of the equation, the vacuum is filled by the government. then the government determines were your rights come from. That is Anti-American. so, Does that make me a Marxist?
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 12-31-2014 at 05:11 PM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Good point. I got a bachelor's and a master's through TA and the GI Bill, and I don't owe anyone a dime. And I STILL have 19 months of GI Bill that I just gave my wife - and I could've had more had I been patient and not used the GI Bill while on active duty.

    If I could go back and do it over, I would. But only one term.
    unless you have someone else paying the tab (a scholarship or rich parents), I'd say an enlistment in the Military (for now) before college is still the best way around that barrier to entry. I'd recommend either the OP serve Less than 6 years or serve the whole 20. The only way to go in my opinion.

    I got a Bachelors after I retired. But, only because, I had the GI bill. I refused to give it to my kids. I wanted them to have self equity in the process.

    I was working on an MBA (for the living expense payment). But, at 45 I'll never use it and If I had to pay for it at my age, then it wouldn't be worth the investment. You can't beat The GI bill. Thank you SEN Webb and SEN Hagel... 2 of the few non-sellouts IMO.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 12-31-2014 at 05:40 PM.

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    Senior Member Capt Alfredo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    There...fixed that for ya. You're welcome.
    You mean it wasn't glaringly obvious by my post that I was speaking only for myself AKA in my opinion?

  5. #45
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Alfredo View Post
    You mean it wasn't glaringly obvious by my post that I was speaking only for myself AKA in my opinion?
    No........

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainmaker View Post
    The Problem is that you need college to even apply for a job that pays a living wage.
    Actually, that's a false statement and one that's been hurting our infrastructure for awhile and will continue to do so until we can get people to stop repeating it.

    The vast majority of Tradesman work provide a nice living wage. You know, the sort of thing that traditionally has apprenticeship programs, not college classrooms, in order to get people started.

    http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home

    Discusses quite a bit about how to build a solid life without college or the military. We NEED skilled tradesmen to repair and rebuild our infrastructure, so not including the Trades when we talk about productive career paths can seriously harm our own futures.
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

  7. #47
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    Actually, that's a false statement and one that's been hurting our infrastructure for awhile and will continue to do so until we can get people to stop repeating it.

    The vast majority of Tradesman work provide a nice living wage. You know, the sort of thing that traditionally has apprenticeship programs, not college classrooms, in order to get people started.

    http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home

    Discusses quite a bit about how to build a solid life without college or the military. We NEED skilled tradesmen to repair and rebuild our infrastructure, so not including the Trades when we talk about productive career paths can seriously harm our own futures.
    This is where you're wrong. We've got illegals to handle the trades at a dirt cheap cost to the contractor. What everyone needs to do is go to college and get an all important degree so you can start out owing hundreds of thousands of dollars, requiring a medium/high paying job to even break even over the next 20 years.

    Seriously, though, we definitely need more people going into the trades. I'd go so far as to say we need a "trade path" in high school, somewhere around the beginning of the junior year (something other than wood/metal/auto shop classes). Start teaching electrical, HVAC, structures, etc. Give those kids ,who are never going to get good enough grades for a scholarship or lots of money from mommy and daddy in order to go to college, a fighting chance at making a decent living.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    Actually, that's a false statement and one that's been hurting our infrastructure for awhile and will continue to do so until we can get people to stop repeating it.

    The vast majority of Tradesman work provide a nice living wage. You know, the sort of thing that traditionally has apprenticeship programs, not college classrooms, in order to get people started.

    http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home

    Discusses quite a bit about how to build a solid life without college or the military. We NEED skilled tradesmen to repair and rebuild our infrastructure, so not including the Trades when we talk about productive career paths can seriously harm our own futures.
    Yes, and it would be a good play for a young man to try that route. .... Rainmaker's very familiar with Mike Rowe, love that show and he is right on target. Maybe Mike will get into politics.

    However, Thanks to the Multinational crowd, the majority of our manufacturing base has been offshored (somewhere around 7-15 Million jobs since 1975 depending on who you ask), our main national export is debt. of course there's always going to be a certain number of jobs can't be outsourced. , Most of the technical trade schools cost $10-15K and there are very few opportunities for a young man to find a paid apprenticeship ,a paid electrical apprentice starts at about $15 an hour (in Florida anyway), .if you can find one. Because, with no enforcement of our immigration laws, you have to compete against slave labor for those..... Good Luck because, Free trade = Slave Trade.

    The last decent candidate we had breaks it down in Layman's terms...Unfortunately we the people decided to elect the 2 other shitbags on the stage with him instead.....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 02-11-2015 at 03:01 PM.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    Actually, that's a false statement and one that's been hurting our infrastructure for awhile and will continue to do so until we can get people to stop repeating it.

    The vast majority of Tradesman work provide a nice living wage. You know, the sort of thing that traditionally has apprenticeship programs, not college classrooms, in order to get people started.

    http://www.mikeroweworks.com/home

    Discusses quite a bit about how to build a solid life without college or the military. We NEED skilled tradesmen to repair and rebuild our infrastructure, so not including the Trades when we talk about productive career paths can seriously harm our own futures.
    You're going to need a huge culture shift in this country to get people to buy into this. Your path of advancement in being a tradesman of any kind is to eventually become a foreman... and then what? You're not going to move up anyone's corporate ladder like that. Granted, very few people will ever become a C-level executive; but at least it's IN your path of advancement if you have a job that requires a degree.

    I'm not saying that everyone needs to have a job where the path of advancement leads to being a C-level executive. Not saying that at all. But that's how the majority of us think. Hell, that's how I think... that's why I got into my field. I'm a Human Resources professional. Federal employee. The odds of me ever being an SES'er are slim, as very few people will find their way to those positions. But... my path of advancement leads to those positions.

    Can't say the same for the guys dragging their knuckles at the shipyard. At the end of the day, they all answer to people on base who have never held a tool in their lives. Positions that the knuckle draggers can't get promoted into.

    Me? Just about everyone in my chain of command - well into the SES'ers - has done my job, or held another job in my field but in a different functional area (but still on the same level), before getting to where they are.

    If you can convince people to be content with retiring in a floor level supervisory position, great. If not, expect things to stay the same.
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 02-12-2015 at 09:28 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  10. #50
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You're going to need a huge culture shift in this country to get people to buy into this. Your path of advancement in being a tradesman of any kind is to eventually become a foreman... and then what? You're not going to move up anyone's corporate ladder like that. Granted, very few people will ever become a C-level executive; but at least it's IN your path of advancement if you have a job that requires a degree.

    I'm not saying that everyone needs to have a job where the path of advancement leads to being a C-level executive. Not saying that at all. But that's how the majority of us think. Hell, that's how I think... that's why I got into my field.
    This has been beat into people over the last 20 years...that you have to move up or you're not pulling your weight. It's the biggest contributor to colleges becoming money making corporations. Before this thinking became prevalent, our economy was in a better position and the wage gaps were much smaller.

    If you can convince people to be content with retiring in a floor level supervisory position, great. If not, expect things to stay the same.
    I think the majority of people are perfectly happy to stay in their "floor level" position. Most people don't want the responsibility of a supervisory position. They are content to stay in the production line making widgets, being home in time for dinner and able to spend time with their families while earning a living wage. The reason that people don't stay in those jobs any more is because they are being taken care of by 8 year old Chinese kids and illegals standing in front of Home Depot.

    Don't underestimate the willingness of many Americans to stand in a production line and pound steel.

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