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Thread: Abortion Topic

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Right? Almost like those who claim to understand/represent Christianity when they aren't a part of it. Though I think this is the first time I've heard you refer to Atheism/Atheists as a collective.
    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    For the record, I don't intend for my statements to represent athiests. I'm not sure there is a word to describe my theology or lack thereof. Quite honestly, I could sum it all up as, "I don't give a shit" I don't know if there is a God. There might be. There might not be. One of these days, most likely when I die, I will find out the answer to this question. For now, I'm happy just living my life and treating others how I want to be treated.
    I didn't mean to imply that you were speaking for Atheists. My use of the term "represent" was more of a synonym for "describe", not "to speak for"

    Your description of atheists and what they believe is not an accurate depiction...is what I meant.

    Being not a Christian myself, I wouldn't claim to represent (speak for) Christians...having been one formerly, I can sometimes represent (describe) their beliefs with some accuracy.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Yes, let's argue the absurd....which is why if you feel a woman should be allowed to take the morning after pill if she is raped...you should still allow her to kill a 5 yr old child that she discovers is the product of rape...because abortion and child murder is the same.
    IMO the absurdity there is that any one would take that long to figure out that the kid they are carrying is a product of rape.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    @sandsjames and @MeasureMan I think you both missed my point. I probably didn't do a good job of communicating it. What I am saying is that without religion you cannot make a case for why it is wrong for me to murder you. Sure, it's against the laws of scoiety. It also isn't very nice, and I'm a nice person so I wouldn't murder you. Plus I think you deserve to live.
    Call it Laws of Nature, Human Nature, Natural Law...I dunno. I think it is human nature to determine that murder is morally wrong. How that came to be, I'm not sure...maybe it was an evolutionary neessity, a developed instinct, perhaps. I think we can all assume that it is a necessity for survival...

    I believe that "Law" against murder predates the recording of it in the 10 commandments. I don't think Moses and Jews thought it was perfectly fine to murder each other until Moses brought back the 10 commandments from Mt Sinai...and then they're like "Oh, wow, yeah, that might make things more sensible around here...good tip, God."

    It would take some research, but I'd bet 10 internet dollars that the vast majority of codes, laws, rules from people who have never heard of Judeo-Christian God, still have some kind of issue with murder.

    What if someone else wants to murder you though? Let's say they decide they want all of your stuff and they are going to come take it and kill you. Society says this is wrong and has laws against such a thing. What is the reasoning behind those laws though? Realistically those laws exist to maintain order. If I could simply come murder you and take your stuff no would would be safe anywhere and we couldn't organize as communities. So without using religion, if you asked me why murder is wrong I would say because it goes against the goal of society so we have made a law against it.
    Okay...once again you provide an answer where you say none is possible...I don't get what you're trying to say.

    I'm not saying athiests are pro-murder. Most, in fact probably 99.9999% are against murder. Not because God told them it was wrong, but simply because they care about their fellow human being. For whatver reason, the majority of society has decided that a fetus under 20 weeks isn't important enough to care about. Some will say that fetus isn't a life, others will say it doesn't matter and that the mother decides if it is a life or not. As long as the majority of society has rationalized abortion being right it will continue to be legal. If at some point enough people in society care about the rights of unborn abortion would become illegal. To me, abortion being illegal or legal doesn't change what it is. What would have become a human life is being ended. The only disucssion to be had is whether we want to align the laws of society with the laws of God or the laws of nature.
    Following...

    This is also why I've said in the past that if the Christian community can not convince people from a moral standpoint that abortion is wrong...then simply banning it legislatively has not accomplished anything of spiritual value and has not brought "'Merica back to God" in any way.

  4. #124
    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    I'm not sure there is a word to describe my theology or lack thereof. Quite honestly, I could sum it all up as, "I don't give a shit" I don't know if there is a God. There might be. There might not be. One of these days, most likely when I die, I will find out the answer to this question. For now, I'm happy just living my life and treating others how I want to be treated.
    Believe it or not, there is an -ism that might comprise your theological views and it isn't agnosticism as Rainmaker suggested. It's apatheism. Yes, that is a thing.

    Check the link and see if you agree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
    ~Mignon McLaughlin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    This is also why I've said in the past that if the Christian community can not convince people from a moral standpoint that abortion is wrong...then simply banning it legislatively has not accomplished anything of spiritual value and has not brought "'Merica back to God" in any way.
    This is a great point, and one that is often overlooked by, for lack of a better term, right wing Christians. Forcing people to follow "God's Law" does not make the country any more Godly. In fact, it creates more rebellion and defeats the entire purpose.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Yes, he wrote that "all men are created equal..." while drinking a cup of tea made for him by one of his slaves.
    Yes, This is true. The enlightenment wasn't an instant event. it took a 150+ years to unfold.

    And the Constitution does not grant rights. it enumerates them. It only applies to the Citizens of the United States. Since, At the time slaves were considered his private property (which he inherited) and not men and therefore they were not covered (other than property rights). So, Does this somehow invalidate the Declaration of Independence and wisdom of the US Constitution then?

    And By the way...not all of the founders were slave owners. Rainmaker's 5th great grandfather (a revolutionary war pensioner) had none. So, Tonight while you're watching Django Unchained from the comfort of your taxpayer funded lazy-boy, and smugly judging these Giants of History (who risked everything to give us everything we have) Try picking up a history book( preferably one written before 1965) and see what else you might find out.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-29-2015 at 09:59 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    This is a great point, and one that is often overlooked by, for lack of a better term, right wing Christians. Forcing people to follow "God's Law" does not make the country any more Godly. In fact, it creates more rebellion and defeats the entire purpose.
    Part of "God's Law" is that acceptance of God (the being) can't be forced. It's what's known as free-will. ... But, the law (consequences) still can.
    Last edited by Rainmaker; 01-29-2015 at 09:35 PM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    This is a great point, and one that is often overlooked by, for lack of a better term, right wing Christians. Forcing people to follow "God's Law" does not make the country any more Godly. In fact, it creates more rebellion and defeats the entire purpose.
    ...and another thing.

    Common Christian wisdom states that babies who die go to heaven by default.

    So, all these millions of abortions are really saving souls, who, if born and lived to maturity, would probably have a better than average chance of winding up in Hell.

    It's like when that Yates lunatic killed her 5 children...she was afraid that they would sin and fall short of heaven, so was doing them a favor by killing them while they were still young and untainted from the world and before they could mess up their salvation...I mean, if you believe that young children go to Heaven, you must admit she has a pretty good point.

    For Andrea Yates so loved her children, that she gave up her one and only soul to perish forever so that they could live forever...seems like it might even be a greater love than God had for the World...He never sacrificed his own or his Son's eternal life...what's 3 days of suffering in the grand scheme of things?
    Last edited by Measure Man; 01-29-2015 at 09:40 PM.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    ...and another thing.

    Common Christian wisdom states that babies who die go to heaven by default.

    So, all these millions of abortions are really saving souls, who, if born and lived to maturity, would probably have a better than average chance of winding up in Hell.

    It's like when that Yates lunatic killed her 5 children...she was afraid that they would sin and fall short of heaven, so was doing them a favor by killing them while they were still young and untainted from the world and before they could mess up their salvation...I mean, if you believe that young children go to Heaven, you must admit she has a pretty good point.

    For Andrea Yates so loved her children, that she gave one and only soul to perish forever so that they could live forever...seems like it might even be a greater love than God had for the World...He never sacrificed his own or his Son's eternal life...what's 3 days of suffering in the grand scheme of things?
    You're doing a good job carrying the water for ABS.

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    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Believe it or not, there is an -ism that might comprise your theological views and it isn't agnosticism as Rainmaker suggested. It's apatheism. Yes, that is a thing.


    Check the link and see if you agree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism
    Agree. Rainmaker stands corrected.

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