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Thread: Would Legal and Socially Acceptable Prostitution in the US Cause a Cultural Change?

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Would Legal and Socially Acceptable Prostitution in the US Cause a Cultural Change?

    Much like USN-Retired started the thread about military spouses holding the cards in marriage, I decided to go the other route and talk about gender relations "in general" here.

    First, I want to clarify what I mean by "legal" prostitution: one can bring up the state of Nevada, and how gender relations there are no different from the rest of the country. However, in Nevada's case, the state simply makes no laws against it; and local governments within the state are free to outlaw it. Furthermore, the municipalities that DO allow prostitution only make it legal to use licensed brothels with firm restrictions on what services can and can't be performed and how they're performed, and - more importantly - they're prohibitively expensive.

    So, when I say "legal" prostitution, I mean completely free from the restrictions found throughout Nevada.

    Second, to clarify what I mean by "socially acceptable" prostitution: in many places, like the Netherlands, prostitutes aren't generally looked down on. In fact, it's a respected profession just like any other. Furthermore, many men AND women in the US feel that men who use the services of a prostitute do so, because they can't get it for free. I'm going to break down why that's flawed thinking, and why it's actually harmful.

    -I've used this example many times before. Charlie Sheen pays for sex all the time, and has probably had more "free" sex than all of us combined.

    -For men, there's no such thing as "free" sex. And I don't mean this in the way most men do, by talking about having to pay for dates. What I mean is, how many times has a woman that you'd recently had casual sex with called you for something, and if you say "no," she'll remind you that she had sex with you? Of course, the fact that YOU had sex with HER, doesn't matter. The item of value is only on HER end. Have any of you ever made the mistake of having sex with a woman who owes you money? At least with a prostitute, the price is agreed upon up front. As long she gets her money, that's all she cares about.

    -I think that non-prostitute women like to use this shaming, in order to maintain a monopoly on vagina. If you've got nowhere else to run, you have to do their bidding in order to get laid.

    -As men, we have to meet a standard in order to get laid. We've gotta have a job, a car, be in shape, dress well, etc, etc. What do women have to do? Have a hole between their legs. Men will fuck a 300 lb unhygienic loudmouth single mom of six - and, as a result, she'll CONTIUNUE to be like that because she knows that men will still have sex with her anyway. As men, if we don't meet the standards, we don't get laid. This FORCES us to get our shit together. We have an incentive to. Women don't.

    -If shelling out some cash to have sex with a chick who looks like a fucking model was legal, the affect would be two-fold: that 300 lb fatass? No one's going to have sex with her anymore. Also, attractive non-prostitute women would be fed a much needed slice of humble pie... as prostitution provides a way of getting sex from a woman, without having to put up with any shit in order to get it. And the money can be far more than worth it. Both the unnattractive and the attractive would be forced to get their shit together.

    In other words, it would allow men to have something to tide them over until they find a woman who meets whatever standard that they set.

    In the context of this particular thread, women hold the cards. I believe that legalizing prostitution would create sexual equilibrium.

    Don't get me wrong, I never once minded having to do certain things to get a woman's attention or to win a woman's affections; but wouldn't it be nice if women had to meet men half-way on this?
    Last edited by Rusty Jones; 10-29-2014 at 12:16 PM.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Here's my issue. Any woman worth being with isn't going to change who she is for some guy who's going to go pay for sex with some used up hooker. Now, if you want to convince women with no self respect to treat you better then it might work. But a woman who's worth being in a relationship with? Not a chance.
    Actually, a man doesn't even HAVE to use a hooker to benefit from this. Hookers only need to be available. Secondly, if using hookers becomes a new norm... women won't have much of a choice.

    Ever see the movie Chasing Amy? As men, we have to accept a woman's sexual past. Who says that they shouldn't accept ours?
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Actually, a man doesn't even HAVE to use a hooker to benefit from this. Hookers only need to be available. Secondly, if using hookers becomes a new norm... women won't have much of a choice.
    Again, I disagree. A woman with any self respect wouldn't feel the need to cater to a man because of this. The insecure women would be the ones it affected and those are already the ones who are doing whatever it takes.

    Ever see the movie Chasing Amy? As men, we have to accept a woman's sexual past. Who says that they shouldn't accept ours?
    I did see it, until the 2 guys started touching each other.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't accept their past and they shouldn't accept ours. I'm talking about what happens during the relationship and nobody should accept someone using the threat of nailing a hooker to change the way the woman acts.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Again, I disagree. A woman with any self respect wouldn't feel the need to cater to a man because of this. The insecure women would be the ones it affected and those are already the ones who are doing whatever it takes.

    I did see it, until the 2 guys started touching each other.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't accept their past and they shouldn't accept ours. I'm talking about what happens during the relationship and nobody should accept someone using the threat of nailing a hooker to change the way the woman acts.
    Okay, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. You're speaking in the context of infidelity, or a woman trying to keep a man that she's already in a relationship with away from prostitutes.

    That's not what I'm talking about.

    What I AM talking about is how, right now, sex is far more easily accessible to women than it is to men. Thus, they're able to use sex as leverage. Legalized prostitution would take that away.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    As men, we have to meet a standard in order to get laid. We've gotta have a job, a car, be in shape, dress well, etc, etc. What do women have to do? Have a hole between their legs. Men will fuck a 300 lb unhygienic loudmouth single mom of six - and, as a result, she'll CONTIUNUE to be like that because she knows that men will still have sex with her anyway. As men, if we don't meet the standards, we don't get laid. This FORCES us to get our shit together. We have an incentive to. Women don't.
    Are you sure it is that much easier for women to get sex than men? What about this guy? He has father 34 children with 17 different women. It doesn't seem to me like all 17 of those women were like this dude has 34 children but he seems to have his shit together. He's in shape, has a job and dresses well.

    http://downtrend.com/71superb/black-...fferent-women/
    Last edited by SomeRandomGuy; 10-29-2014 at 01:47 PM.

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    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    As men, we have to accept a woman's sexual past. Who says that they shouldn't accept ours?
    I don't know... I've always sensed that there are two different sets of rules. For example, if a man states that he will not date / be with a woman that is fat then that man is ostracized for being insensitive to women, perpetuating a stereotypical body image most women cannot achieve, etc. But it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to state that she will not date / be with a man that is under 6 feet tall. A woman can (in most cases) lose weight. It is unlikely that a man that is 5'6" can grow 6".

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Thus, they're able to use sex as leverage. Legalized prostitution would take that away.
    Wouldn't prostitutes still be able to refuse service? Would they be able to charge more to the less desirable clients? Call it a hardship tax. Still leverage in a way.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Are you sure it is that much easier for women to get sex than men? What about this guy? He has father 34 children with 17 different women. It doesn't seem to me like all 17 of those women were like this dude has 34 children but he seems to have his shit together. He's in shape, has a job and dresses well.

    http://downtrend.com/71superb/black-...fferent-women/
    Yeah, but not every man can pull that off. I remember not to long ago - and I was shocked to read this, because I thought that the number was much higher - but supposedly, the average number of sex partners that the average American male has had by the age of 30 is only about 7 (though, to be honest, this information was obtained through surveys... and there's probably other stats to contradict this).

    Quote Originally Posted by efmbman View Post
    I don't know... I've always sensed that there are two different sets of rules. For example, if a man states that he will not date / be with a woman that is fat then that man is ostracized for being insensitive to women, perpetuating a stereotypical body image most women cannot achieve, etc. But it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to state that she will not date / be with a man that is under 6 feet tall. A woman can (in most cases) lose weight. It is unlikely that a man that is 5'6" can grow 6".
    Exactly; and I'm not to keen on the whole "nice guy shaming" that's been going on all over the internet lately - you know, where "nice guy" complain that women overlook them for "jerks;" and then the response is that "nice guys" aren't really "nice," because they have a sense of entitlement and are using their "niceness" as a means to an end.

    The "meat and potatoes" of this argument appears to be no one should be telling women who they should and shouldn't be dating. But... people tell men all the time, right?

    But that's talk for a different thread.

    Wouldn't prostitutes still be able to refuse service? Would they be able to charge more to the less desirable clients? Call it a hardship tax. Still leverage in a way.
    Of course they can. But they're only hurting themselves. Not only are they sending business over to the next prostitute, but the guy she turned away could've had dozens of friends he could have sent her way, if he knew her product. By turning away business from one man, she turned away business from many others.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    I don't see how legalized prostitution would cause a major cultural shift in the behavior of American women.

    Men already have numerous options for having sex.

    There are plenty of fish in the sea. It doesn't matter if you are paying for it as a business transaction, or paying for it by being charming and taking a woman on dates.

    If you don't like a particular female, then go find another.

    I don't understand what behavior it is that you think would change.

    Do you think that females would suddenly start competing for the attention of men?

    They already do that! Why do you think they spend time in the gym, wear cosmetics, wear pretty dresses, and have their have fixed up at salons?

    Sounds like YOU have a problem competing with other men.
    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva...

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Okay, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. You're speaking in the context of infidelity, or a woman trying to keep a man that she's already in a relationship with away from prostitutes.

    That's not what I'm talking about.

    What I AM talking about is how, right now, sex is far more easily accessible to women than it is to men. Thus, they're able to use sex as leverage. Legalized prostitution would take that away.
    IF there was no stigma attached then I might agree. But the stigma will always be there in this country. And I think those guys who are going to pay for it, in this country, are going to do it whether it's legal or not.

    Men use money as leverage. It is perfectly legal to be a gold digger. That doesn't mean that a guy has to feel they have to spend a lot of money on a date, gifts, etc. It just means that those guys who feel they need to do so, will. It's a give an take, mostly for people who put sex and money at the forefront of any encounter with the opposite sex. And people wonder why the divorce rate is over 50%.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Look, if you've still got issues with me; then leave it on the other thread. Let's leave the slate over here clean.

    To respond to your points:

    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    I don't see how legalized prostitution would cause a major cultural shift in the behavior of American women.

    Men already have numerous options for having sex.

    There are plenty of fish in the sea. It doesn't matter if you are paying for it as a business transaction, or paying for it by being charming and taking a woman on dates.

    If you don't like a particular female, then go find another.
    While it's true that men have numerous options for sex, prostitution is the only one where the transaction is completely closed as soon as both parties part ways. You won't see her or hear from her again. Unless you really liked the product and you want to go back. But that would be completely up to you.

    I don't understand what behavior it is that you think would change.
    Okay, I can give examples - look at all the stupid shit that men do for sex, and the even more stupid shit they do when they can't get it (Elliot Rodgers, anyone?). women have the ability to manipulate men into doing whatever they want, as long as vagina is the reward (or she can convince an idiotic male to THINK it's going to be the reward; either way, she's using it).

    Do you think that females would suddenly start competing for the attention of men?

    They already do that! Why do you think they spend time in the gym, wear cosmetics, wear pretty dresses, and have their have fixed up at salons?
    You know, there have been plenty of blogs and articles slamming men for thinking that women do this for US; when the truth is... they don't. Maybe some do, but generally, they don't. Furthermore, you ever notice how the most beautiful women are often seen holding hands with the ugliest men? There's a reason for that... leverage.

    Sounds like YOU have a problem competing with other men.
    Nope, I'm a married man of nine years, and was married for three before that. My thoughts on this actually began to formulate based on self-destructive behavior that I've seen men engage in, all for the sake of getting their dicks wet.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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