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Thread: Military invites illegal aliens to sign up

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    Military invites illegal aliens to sign up

    Saw this on USA today.
    First off, with how most branches are CUTTING servicemen and women to match new lower budgets, how the heck is anyone with half a brain thinking that accepting potentially up to 1500 illegals a year is a good idea?
    2nd, since many jobs require security clearances, how will illegals be vetted to verify they are eligible for one?
    3rd is this going to be used as a back door for citizenship for those who serve?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...tary/16225135/

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...grants-enlist/

    http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/more-un...-defense-dept/

    The foxnews link does hit part 1 and 3, with mentioning that "Among the benefits offered are educational aid, pay and benefits from service, and "expedited citizenship."
    Part 1 was hit with "The Army alone is removing thousands from the active-duty ranks, in a bid to reduce the force strength from about 520,000 soldiers earlier this year to as low as 440,000. Those cuts have raised concerns about military readiness. "

    To me this is a stupid idea, being put fourth to accommodate an enlarging Illegal immigrant population that is not being wowed by what little congress is allowing to be passed by our white house. Nothing more.
    We are already kicking out good men and women cause of Perform to serve (and other similar programs) as well as a low high year tenure, so how do TPTB think this is a good idea is beyond me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Saw this on USA today.
    First off, with how most branches are CUTTING servicemen and women to match new lower budgets, how the heck is anyone with half a brain thinking that accepting potentially up to 1500 illegals a year is a good idea?
    2nd, since many jobs require security clearances, how will illegals be vetted to verify they are eligible for one?
    3rd is this going to be used as a back door for citizenship for those who serve?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...tary/16225135/

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014...grants-enlist/

    http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/more-un...-defense-dept/

    The foxnews link does hit part 1 and 3, with mentioning that "Among the benefits offered are educational aid, pay and benefits from service, and "expedited citizenship."
    Part 1 was hit with "The Army alone is removing thousands from the active-duty ranks, in a bid to reduce the force strength from about 520,000 soldiers earlier this year to as low as 440,000. Those cuts have raised concerns about military readiness. "

    To me this is a stupid idea, being put fourth to accommodate an enlarging Illegal immigrant population that is not being wowed by what little congress is allowing to be passed by our white house. Nothing more.
    We are already kicking out good men and women cause of Perform to serve (and other similar programs) as well as a low high year tenure, so how do TPTB think this is a good idea is beyond me.
    You are geting upset at what has been US miilitary policy since the founding of the Continental Army? A policy that provided about 25% or so of the soldier that saved the US from traitors in the 1860s? Do you hav3e any grasp at all of US military History

    Do the names Von Steuben, Lafayette, and Pulaski, ring any bells, or how about John Paul Jones?

    Serving in the US mitarty is not a back door fro citizenship it is walking through the front door with head held high at citizenship earned the hard way

    The mitalry has been handling foreign natonals and secriuty clearances for as long as they have had security clearances and it is not really a problem. It doesn't suddenly become a problem when some frightened racists start paying attention.

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    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeKerriii View Post
    You are geting upset at what has been US miilitary policy since the founding of the Continental Army? A policy that provided about 25% or so of the soldier that saved the US from traitors in the 1860s? Do you hav3e any grasp at all of US military History

    Do the names Von Steuben, Lafayette, and Pulaski, ring any bells, or how about John Paul Jones?

    Serving in the US mitarty is not a back door fro citizenship it is walking through the front door with head held high at citizenship earned the hard way

    The mitalry has been handling foreign natonals and secriuty clearances for as long as they have had security clearances and it is not really a problem. It doesn't suddenly become a problem when some frightened racists start paying attention.
    I am not sure you have your facts right there. Citing Von Steuben, Lafayette, and Pulaski isn't on point since none of them were illegal aliens.

    Neither is foreign nationals in general serving in the US military. Legal aliens have served with honor for many years.

    While I don't agree that it is a huge problem I do have mixed feelings because it seems to reward illegal behavior. Having said that, I actually support total amnesty for illegal aliens with some very definitive conditions. That is another topic though.

    Truth is that security clearances for the particular category of illegal alien being discussed will probably not be a problem but will necessitate a rewrite of current police and executive orders. They would currently be ineligible for a security clearance except in a very narrowly defined exception (which considering their youth is unlikely to hold up).


    This is worth discussion. Adult and reasonable discussion. For instance, at this time when the military faces cuts not seen in 70 years, why would we expand the eligibility to a group never before considered so? What drove this decision, and why now? This shouldn't simply be dismissed as the rantings of 'frightened racists'. There are some legitimate questions raised by this decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    This is worth discussion. Adult and reasonable discussion. For instance, at this time when the military faces cuts not seen in 70 years, why would we expand the eligibility to a group never before considered so? What drove this decision, and why now? This shouldn't simply be dismissed as the rantings of 'frightened racists'. There are some legitimate questions raised by this decision.
    That's easy. My guess would be that they would expect the majority of illegals who do sign up to do the minimum enlistment, get citizenship, get out, and move on, reducing retirement and other long term benefits.

    One thing I do know that as a Tech School instructor there are a relatively high number of students coming through without a good grasp of the English language. It makes it very difficult (though not impossible) when a large part of the instruction is more translating than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    That's easy. My guess would be that they would expect the majority of illegals who do sign up to do the minimum enlistment, get citizenship, get out, and move on, reducing retirement and other long term benefits.

    One thing I do know that as a Tech School instructor there are a relatively high number of students coming through without a good grasp of the English language. It makes it very difficult (though not impossible) when a large part of the instruction is more translating than anything else.
    I can't agree with your guess. There is no real data to suggest that is what would happen. Why would such people give up a sure job in favor of looking for another job in this economy? Surely after receiving the relative generous salary of a military member they would not want to go back to the low-paying jobs that illegals historically fill?

    On an off-topic note......I was going to emphasis my position by pointing out that minorities are generally overrepresented in the US Military (and they historically are, at least in the black and Hispanic population) but since 2010 Hispanics are not reported as a minority so there are no definitive figures available. I find that curious. Evidently it was a mandate from the OMB.
    Last edited by TJMAC77SP; 09-29-2014 at 04:47 PM.
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    I see it as a way to help illegal aliens become legal. This is what we want right? We have to understand that not every immigrant here illegally wants to be here illegally. I assume that most want to be legal in order to be afforded the same rights and protections, but some either don't know how to go about it, or fear the process. Allowing immigrants (illegal or not) to join the military has been around for quite awhile...I don't see a problem with this. I think it says a lot about the persons character, when they are willing to serve a country that doesn't even recognize them as a citizen. And to think we have our own citizens who are unwilling to serve. And yes they should get the same bennies as you and I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I can't agree with your guess.
    Ok

    There is no real data to suggest that is what would happen.
    Nope...that's why it was a guess.

    Why would such people give up a sure job in favor of looking for another job in this economy? Surely after receiving the relative generous salary of a military member they would not want to go back to the low-paying jobs that illegals historically fill?
    For the same reasons the majority of the current military also gives up the generous military salary even when they may have no secure job prospects in the works.

    What I'm curious is to know how it's going to work with ASVABs. Do we currently issue ASVABs in foreign languages? In a military culture that requires clear communication to ensure the quickest possible responses, will there be an English language requirement? Those, to me, are the biggest issues. As far as it being a pathway to citizenship, I have no problem at all with it. More so just with the logistics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    This is worth discussion. Adult and reasonable discussion. For instance, at this time when the military faces cuts not seen in 70 years, why would we expand the eligibility to a group never before considered so? What drove this decision, and why now? This shouldn't simply be dismissed as the rantings of 'frightened racists'. There are some legitimate questions raised by this decision.
    Thanks for the back up T..

    Quote Originally Posted by MERC8401 View Post
    I see it as a way to help illegal aliens become legal. This is what we want right? We have to understand that not every immigrant here illegally wants to be here illegally. I assume that most want to be legal in order to be afforded the same rights and protections, but some either don't know how to go about it, or fear the process. Allowing immigrants (illegal or not) to join the military has been around for quite awhile...I don't see a problem with this. I think it says a lot about the persons character, when they are willing to serve a country that doesn't even recognize them as a citizen. And to think we have our own citizens who are unwilling to serve. And yes they should get the same bennies as you and I.
    I do though. I see it as a snub to the thousands each and every year that wait, pay out of pocket and DO the right thing to come here LEGALLY, to see those who come here illegally (even if it was being brought over by parents) getting rewarded by being helped to get citizenship.
    What of all those who are doing the right thing? Where is the "Help for them to become citizens"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Thanks for the back up T..



    I do though. I see it as a snub to the thousands each and every year that wait, pay out of pocket and DO the right thing to come here LEGALLY, to see those who come here illegally (even if it was being brought over by parents) getting rewarded by being helped to get citizenship.
    What of all those who are doing the right thing? Where is the "Help for them to become citizens"?
    But what you might not realize is that not everyone has the means to come here legally. And the ones who do have the means typically will not join the military...for the same reason that most American's don't...so I don't see this as a snub to the ones who come here legally...I see it as a way to make them legal, so they are paying taxes, have a driver's license or ID...you know...doing what we want them to do in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I am not sure you have your facts right there. Citing Von Steuben, Lafayette, and Pulaski isn't on point since none of them were illegal aliens.

    Neither is foreign nationals in general serving in the US military. Legal aliens have served with honor for many years.

    While I don't agree that it is a huge problem I do have mixed feelings because it seems to reward illegal behavior. Having said that, I actually support total amnesty for illegal aliens with some very definitive conditions. That is another topic though.

    Truth is that security clearances for the particular category of illegal alien being discussed will probably not be a problem but will necessitate a rewrite of current police and executive orders. They would currently be ineligible for a security clearance except in a very narrowly defined exception (which considering their youth is unlikely to hold up).


    This is worth discussion. Adult and reasonable discussion. For instance, at this time when the military faces cuts not seen in 70 years, why would we expand the eligibility to a group never before considered so? What drove this decision, and why now? This shouldn't simply be dismissed as the rantings of 'frightened racists'. There are some legitimate questions raised by this decision.
    Since the program hasd been in existences for decades, and is primarily used to fill holes where normal recruiting fails, What is the controversy about letting it continue for the small number of people it applies to?

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