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Thread: What is the CA govenor thinking??

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    Yes and no. I think the majority of people in the U.S. are heterosexual. I don't know if the majority of people in the U.S. really care about the verbiage on a marriage or birth certificate.
    So you are saying you would have no problem, being listed as "doner A" rather than Father" on your son or daughter's birth certificate?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    It is California. We voted on many laws and resolutions and several of the "big" ones were overturned by the courts.
    Which makes me wonder, why even have the vote, if its going to get overturned by the courts?
    Why make people go through the rigamarole of a vote if you know its going to get challenged and overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    The term "spouse" includes everyone, does it not?
    What i am offended at is that a very small minority, is getting to dictate to the majority what is right.

    What's the purpose of having a democracy, when we are letting the Minority decide what is or is not going to be right? Is that not the OPPOSITE of what a democracy is supposed to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Holy cow.

    Your freedom of religion is hampered by the terms you are forced to use on state forms?

    Sorry...a little too politically correct for me.

    I hope you're just being passive aggressive or something and not really serious.
    Measure, to ME (and it seems sandjames too), it is too PC that we are being forced to have our religious beliefs ignored (husband and wife), to appease a small minority of people (the lgbt community).

    Are you really offended by the term Spouse...or are you just mad that same-sex couples are going to be less awkward?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Holy cow.

    Your freedom of religion is hampered by the terms you are forced to use on state forms?

    If a house purchase contract says "purchaser" do you insist it say "Purchaser husband" and "purchaser wife"?

    Sorry...a little too politically correct for me.

    Yes, we need a form for spouses...another form for husband and wife...maybe another that says both husband...and another that says wife and wife....oh, then we can get one that says mistress and mister...maybe one that says dom and sub...

    I hope you're just being passive aggressive or something and not really serious.
    If the government insists on being part of marriages then they should have to respect my wishes on what I want on my marriage license/certificate, whether it say partner, spouse, husband, etc. Yes, the religious comment I made was sattire...

    I know it's difficult to have a couple different forms on a computer when they print these things out. Wouldn't want to stress out the courthouse when I file for the documents.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    Not how the system is designed.

    The system assumes that all laws are Constitutional UNTIL CHALLANGED by someone whose COnstitutional rights are being violated under the enforcement of that law.

    ONLY THEN does the system consider whether the law is Constitutional or not.
    I know how it DOES work. I'm saying how it SHOULD work. Why waste all that damn time and money on campainging, ads, voting ballots, etc...months and months, when it's not going to be allowed. Raise a resolution or law, have it be determined whether it's constitutional or not, then go ahead with the voting.

    I know that we don't want common sense to come into play in this situation...change is bad...bad!!!!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    If I want mine to say Husband and Wife it should be up to me. Why does it have to be legislated? With my religious beliefs, the term "wife" comes with certain obligations, as does the term "husband". Nowhere in my religion is the term "spouse" used. To force me to use the term "spouse" on official government documents (that shouldn't play any part in it anyway) is taking away my freedom of religion.
    At what point did your religion become the standard by which the state of California has to operate under?

    As has been pointed out before when the topic of gay marriage was discussed, marriage is a usually a two-part event. One part religious (for those choosing a religious ceremony) and one part civil. It is the state (civil) that issues the marriage certificate, not the religious affiliation, and they can amend anything on the certificate as they seem fit. Any certificate from your church legitimizes the marriage only in the eyes of your church.

    The marriage certificate from the state legalizes the marriage between the two individuals in the eyes of the civil authorities. Not all churches, just like the states, are in agreement with gay marriage. However, California does recognize gay marriage and that the marriage is equal to that of heterosexual marriages. To have one member of the marriage identified as "husband" or "wife" with the gender connotation that goes with it would be discriminatory and degrading to the same sex couple. To remove that stigma, the use of the term "spouse" imposes no gender connotation and makes both parties in the marriage "equals" on the marriage certificate.

    Now, if your religion has a problem with recognizing people as being equals then you should be asking why you belong to that religion.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    At what point did your religion become the standard by which the state of California has to operate under?
    The state doesn't have to operate under my religion. I don't think that wanting the word "Husband" used is forcing them to do so.

    As has been pointed out before when the topic of gay marriage was discussed, marriage is a usually a two-part event. One part religious (for those choosing a religious ceremony) and one part civil. It is the state (civil) that issues the marriage certificate, not the religious affiliation, and they can amend anything on the certificate as they seem fit. Any certificate from your church legitimizes the marriage only in the eyes of your church.
    Thanks for the lesson...and it's not the certificate from the church...it's the ceremony and the vows. The certificate is strictly for "legal" reasons.

    The marriage certificate from the state legalizes the marriage between the two individuals in the eyes of the civil authorities. Not all churches, just like the states, are in agreement with gay marriage. However, California does recognize gay marriage and that the marriage is equal to that of heterosexual marriages. To have one member of the marriage identified as "husband" or "wife" with the gender connotation that goes with it would be discriminatory and degrading to the same sex couple. To remove that stigma, the use of the term "spouse" imposes no gender connotation and makes both parties in the marriage "equals" on the marriage certificate.

    Now, if your religion has a problem with recognizing people as being equals then you should be asking why you belong to that religion.
    I agree...they do recognize gay marriage. That's fine. It's a shame they don't want to recognize straight marriage, though, by getting rid of terms that "traditional" couples may want...even though I don't mind if people use the term "spouse" or whatever, it's not what I want on mine.

    Also...I'd like to say that I think the term "spouse" is highly offensive. It sounds to me like a word used for a business deal. It's a word that takes any gender out of the relationship. That's my opinion. If others want to use the word spouse..that's great. I'm not going to try to stop it...or even care.


    What's sad is that many people are considered "anti-gay" marriage when in fact they are only "pro-traditional" marriage. Two separate things completely. Why is it that I'm no longer allowed to consider myself "pro-traditional" without being labeled "anti-gay".
    Last edited by sandsjames; 07-23-2014 at 07:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    Now, if your religion has a problem with recognizing people as being equals then you should be asking why you belong to that religion.
    I think it's funny that anybody considers anyone equally. Should we be treated the same, yes...but no two people are equal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Yes, the religious comment I made was sattire...
    Okay...then I won't drag this out any longer

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    If the government insists on being part of marriages then they should have to respect my wishes on what I want on my marriage license/certificate, whether it say partner, spouse, husband, etc. Yes, the religious comment I made was sattire...

    I know it's difficult to have a couple different forms on a computer when they print these things out. Wouldn't want to stress out the courthouse when I file for the documents.
    The government has an interest in that they are the ones who recognize what a marriage is in terms of what legal rights the individuals are granted under the marriage. The state is simply trying to simplify the designation of who was married. You may want to have your spouse listed as "wife" because of your religious beliefs but then what happens when someone else wants their spouse listed as "Property" because their religion looks upon a wife as property?

    You've been in the military long enough and if you find the word "spouse" objectionable on a marriage certificate then tells us what action you've taken when filling out military forms which asks the name of your "spouse' instead of wife.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    If the government insists on being part of marriages then they should have to respect my wishes on what I want on my marriage license/certificate, whether it say partner, spouse, husband, etc. Yes, the religious comment I made was sattire...

    I know it's difficult to have a couple different forms on a computer when they print these things out. Wouldn't want to stress out the courthouse when I file for the documents.
    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    I think it's funny that anybody considers anyone equally. Should we be treated the same, yes...but no two people are equal.
    We're talking marriage, not sports or drinking beer. In marriage, the state looks upon the two parties as equals in the marriage just as they now do in California with heterosexual and gay marriages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    What i am offended at is that a very small minority, is getting to dictate to the majority what is right.

    What's the purpose of having a democracy, when we are letting the Minority decide what is or is not going to be right? Is that not the OPPOSITE of what a democracy is supposed to be?
    What are you talking about...what is right?

    No one is telling you or anyone else that a husband being married to a wife is wrong.

    They are simply modifying forms to make it apply to all legal marriages...no one is asking you are demanding you to entere into a same-sex marriage...nor are they telling you what is right or wrong.

    ...you are so easily offended.

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