Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 39

Thread: Interesting on immigration

  1. #1
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)

    Interesting on immigration

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

    Starting to notice the separation between Churches and anti-immigration protesters on several recent stories. Any chance this could curb the notion that the Church is in the pockets of the far right?

    I'm just glad to read a story where the Church is staying away from the political side and looking at the humanitarian side. No matter how I feel on immigration, I'm glad the Church (and in more than just this story) is doing their part to help those in crisis and staying out of the argument on who should stay and who should go. A step in the right direction, IMO.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Maybe you missed the bit where the Pope talked about how we should accept all fo the refugees with open arms and without question?
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

  3. #3
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    Maybe you missed the bit where the Pope talked about how we should accept all fo the refugees with open arms and without question?
    What? What does that have to do with any point I made? And why do you assume I missed it? What part of my statement leads you to that?

    I'm talking about religious organizations within the U.S. Not the statement of a non-U.S. citizen. The pope has no interest in U.S. immigration law. Usually the American religious organizations are generalized as being far right. These recent statements do a good job of making the distinction between the religion side and the political side. It's a good thing that the Church (at least in a few cases) is avoiding the politics and worrying about the people in need.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    What? What does that have to do with any point I made? And why do you assume I missed it? What part of my statement leads you to that?
    This one:

    I'm just glad to read a story where the Church is staying away from the political side and looking at the humanitarian side.
    Back to your last post, now, though.

    I'm talking about religious organizations within the U.S. Not the statement of a non-U.S. citizen. The pope has no interest in U.S. immigration law.
    1) Not obvious from your prior statements. And I'm confused why the leader of one of the largest religuous organizations in our nation would not be considered to represent that organization.

    2) Not obvious from your prior statements.

    3) Obviously, you are mistaken. Since he has expressed an opinion, he has indicated that he has an interest. Whether he should have an interest in your opinion is a completely different question than whether he has taken an interest.
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

  5. #5
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hustonj View Post
    This one:
    Did you read the article? It talks about the Presbeterian Church in Arizona...not the Catholic Church



    Back to your last post, now, though.



    1) Not obvious from your prior statements. And I'm confused why the leader of one of the largest religuous organizations in our nation would not be considered to represent that organization.
    I never said he didn't. It's just not related to the situation I'm talking about.

    2) Not obvious from your prior statements.
    What's not obvious?

    3) Obviously, you are mistaken. Since he has expressed an opinion, he has indicated that he has an interest. Whether he should have an interest in your opinion is a completely different question than whether he has taken an interest.
    He doesn't have an interest in the immigration laws of the U.S. What he has an interest in is taking care of humanitarian issues. And that's my point...that was made very clear...that it's good that the Church is separating the political issue of immigration from the humanitarian issue of those who are being brought here.

    Why must you DEMAND that I make this about the Catholic Church?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Opt out
    Posts
    2,285
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

    Starting to notice the separation between Churches and anti-immigration protesters on several recent stories. Any chance this could curb the notion that the Church is in the pockets of the far right?

    I'm just glad to read a story where the Church is staying away from the political side and looking at the humanitarian side. No matter how I feel on immigration, I'm glad the Church (and in more than just this story) is doing their part to help those in crisis and staying out of the argument on who should stay and who should go. A step in the right direction, IMO.
    I agree with you that it's nice to see a church just taking care of people...

    I don't think the notion is that all churches are in the pockets of the far right...I think when we associate the far right, we're generally talking about the "Evangelical Churches"...Southern Baptist, Pentecostal...

    If someone tells me they are Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc...I generally would not associate them with far right thinking. If they say they are Pentecostal, then yes, I'm more inclined to think so. When we see the Assembly of God taking in illegal immigrants with no motive other than to feed and care of them...then you might be on to something.

  7. #7
    Senior Member TJMAC77SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    I agree with you that it's nice to see a church just taking care of people...

    I don't think the notion is that all churches are in the pockets of the far right...I think when we associate the far right, we're generally talking about the "Evangelical Churches"...Southern Baptist, Pentecostal...

    If someone tells me they are Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc...I generally would not associate them with far right thinking. If they say they are Pentecostal, then yes, I'm more inclined to think so. When we see the Assembly of God taking in illegal immigrants with no motive other than to feed and care of them...then you might be on to something.
    Any notion of churches being far right is born of their stances on abortion and same-sex marriage. It suites the current narrative for some.

    The truth is that the churches of this country were the first welfare and health care systems for the poor and have always worked in their interest. This is not to say their methods were always above question but that is a different discussion.
    ___________________
    Read carefully, think, then write thoughtfully……………………………..

    I don’t have any quotes……you can pick one for yourself

  8. #8
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Any notion of churches being far right is born of their stances on abortion and same-sex marriage. It suites the current narrative for some.

    The truth is that the churches of this country were the first welfare and health care systems for the poor and have always worked in their interest. This is not to say their methods were always above question but that is a different discussion.
    Right...but usually they don't get publicity (in the past few years) for doing so.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Opt out
    Posts
    2,285
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    Any notion of churches being far right is born of their stances on abortion and same-sex marriage. It suites the current narrative for some.
    ...acceptance of gays in general
    ...teaching creationism in school
    ...prayer in school
    ...prayer in govt. meetings
    ...America as a Christian nation
    ...abstinence education
    ...stem cell research (tied to abortion)

    The truth is that the churches of this country were the first welfare and health care systems for the poor and have always worked in their interest. This is not to say their methods were always above question but that is a different discussion.
    I can agree with that.

  10. #10
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,984
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    ...acceptance of gays in general
    I'll give you this one..
    ...teaching creationism in school
    Yes, but just as another theory...
    ...prayer in school
    I think this one is in pretty isolated areas.
    ...prayer in govt. meetings
    This one seems to be both parties but, yes, moreso Conservatives.
    ...America as a Christian nation
    Not sure what this means. Does the fact that the majority of people identify as Christian and so will vote in favor of things that have a basis in Christianity? Probably.
    ...abstinence education
    As an alternative to other birth control methods taught. And some don't want any sex ed taught at all. I can see both sides. I almost wish it was taught as part of a biology class and not as a separate sex ed class and some of the complaints might diminish.
    ...stem cell research (tied to abortion)
    I think the opposition to stem cell research is more tied to being uneducated about the process and fear the slippery slope theories, though the abortion comparison is the basis for the argument.

    All of the things you have pointed out are definitely identified with the far right, or "Christian right" for sure. I think this is a perfect example of why the two party system is a problem. It seems to me that Conservative and Liberal used to refer almost completely to fiscal issues. Only relatively recently has the social and fiscal been tied together.

    And what's ironic about the whole thing is that, as mentioned, the church is designed so that it is a welfare provider yet the ones who argue against welfare are the Christian right.

    I think that it's probably because our personal lives have been tied to our political views and they shouldn't be...examples:

    I am personally against abortion...I think it's wrong. I also think that abortion should be legal. Does that make me liberal or conservative on the topic of abortion?

    I personally don't like being around gays. It makes me uncomfortable. I would never hang out with a gay couple. I do, however, think gays should be allowed to marry if they wish and have the same freedoms as the rest of us (and, of course, think that government should play no part in marriage). Am I liberal or conservative on the topic of homosexuality?

    I think that creationism and evolution can coexist in theory.

    I'm for labor unions. I'm against handing out condoms at school. I'm for welfare and against continuing to pay welfare to those who just keep having kids.

    I could go on and on but my question is this. What party do I affiliate with? What should I register as? There is no platform out there for someone who feels this way. A politician who feels as I do on these subjects would have three choices: 1)Keep personal beliefs to themselves 2)Push personal beliefs even though I know that my beliefs are the best for everyone or 3) state what I just told you and know that there is zero possibility of every getting elected and making a difference.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •