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Thread: New Feedback Forms Available

  1. #1
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    New Feedback Forms Available

    The new 931/932(effective 20140701) are on e-publishing.

    http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/pr...1_20140701.pdf

    I did not expect the self assessment portion. Don't know how much value it will add, other than to brand new airmen.

    The rating portion seems VERY black&white. I will probably need to use the comment section for a troop that falls into a grey area. It definitely seems to be paving the way for the next epr form and quota system.

    ...BIG CHANGES...
    Last edited by KnuckleDragger; 06-07-2014 at 05:10 AM.
    Must be nice to have breakfest with family....Maintenance guys have got it made-BRUWIN

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnuckleDragger View Post
    The new 931/932(effective 20140701) are on e-publishing.

    http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/pr...1_20140701.pdf

    I did not expect the self assessment portion. Don't know how much value it will add, other than to brand new airmen.

    The rating portion seems VERY black&white. I will probably need to use the comment section for a troop that falls into a grey area. It definitely seems to be paving the way for the next epr form and quota system.

    ...BIG CHANGES...
    Are there some good changes? Yes. Here are some issues I still have:

    Training section..."Ahead of time and above standards"...If one requires a 70 passing score will they get marked in this box if they are ahead of time and score a 71? According to the form, they should, but I'm sure supervisors will still have different requirements.

    Whole Airmen concept, WHAT????? How subjective is that?????

    A couple things I like. Everything has to show a positive impact on the military. Somebody getting the bachelor degree doesn't necessarily mean a mark to the right...unless it somehow has a "significant positive impact".

    I also like the "N/A" blocks at the top half.

    I think there is still a bit of grey area but I think it is somewhat better overall. It's going to be tough handing out 5s...well, at least for the next few years until a few people don't get promoted because they didn't have enough EPR points and the supervisor sees a dirtbag from another shop get promoted.

    One last thing...Standards..."Raised the standard in ALL areas"...How do you raise a standard? And does it really have to be in ALL areas? Almost sounds like you're going to need at least 100 on your PT Test here...maybe some extra credit?

    Also, how do you exceed standards in dress and appearance? Shorter haircut? Bald? Buy new boots once a week so they don't get dirty? I don't get it.

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    I predict these forms will get about as much use as the ones we currently are using. Essentially nonexistent. It’s a noble idea but unless it gets incorporated into the actual evaluation system then it’s pointless. Just another good idea fairy that took a bunch of resources to design and will be ineffectively implemented. The feedback system is, dare I say, even more messed up than the EPR system. A documented form is something I see as not necessary to begin with.

    In 15 years I have had ONE official feedback session. That was at my third assignment, as a SSgt, and it was pointless for the most part. You don’t need a form to tell someone what is expected of them or if they are messing up, just my take.

    Now for quotas. I have heard Chief Cody say on more than one occasion that there won’t be any. If for some reason that doesn't end up being true they would have to realign every ranks EPR close out to the same period of time. While that is just some admin thing it wouldn't be hard, but can you even imagine having to do a majority of an entire shops worth of EPRs all at once? That would be counterproductive.

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    Senior Member Chief_KO's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that a copy of the PFW must accompany the EPR as it is routed for signatures, so that should take care of the under usage.
    IAW the AFI, it is the RATEE's responsibility to ensure the feedback is conducted. When the RATEE signs the EPR he concurs that feedback was given on the date indicated on the form.
    It is also my understanding that EPR close out dates will by synced to the respective PECD. That single action will accomplish more to diminish inflation than anything else. When 40 SSgt EPRs hit leadership at the same time it will be EXTREMELY EASY to determine how many earned a 5, 4, or 3. (Works fine for the Navy!).
    The RATEE's self-assessment is a valuable tool...if anyone has ever done a self-assessment we are much harder. much more critical on ourself than others are. Very few people can honestly rate themselves as excellent or outstanding across the board, but many supervisors do.
    Is this form and the new EPR perfect, of course not...and no form ever will be. BUT, IMO this is a move in the right direction.
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_KO View Post
    It is my understanding that a copy of the PFW must accompany the EPR as it is routed for signatures, so that should take care of the under usage.
    IAW the AFI, it is the RATEE's responsibility to ensure the feedback is conducted. When the RATEE signs the EPR he concurs that feedback was given on the date indicated on the form.
    It is also my understanding that EPR close out dates will by synced to the respective PECD. That single action will accomplish more to diminish inflation than anything else. When 40 SSgt EPRs hit leadership at the same time it will be EXTREMELY EASY to determine how many earned a 5, 4, or 3. (Works fine for the Navy!).
    The RATEE's self-assessment is a valuable tool...if anyone has ever done a self-assessment we are much harder. much more critical on ourself than others are. Very few people can honestly rate themselves as excellent or outstanding across the board, but many supervisors do.
    Is this form and the new EPR perfect, of course not...and no form ever will be. BUT, IMO this is a move in the right direction.
    Any guesses about how this will affect small units compared to large units? For instance, if I'm in a squadron with 40 airmen there will be more 5s "available" than a unit with 10.

    Also, one is not supposed to be rated against people in other career fields, are they? It's supposed to be against peers which, to me, means people in the same rank/career field. I can see that completely overlooked with all EPRs being submitted/reviewed at the same time.

    In addition, if the supervisor submits an EPR he cannot be forced to change it, so is this just going to be accompanied with threats to the supervisor's EPR if he doesn't comply with what "leadership" thinks of the rating?

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    Senior Member Chief_KO's Avatar
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    Regarding writing all the shop's EPRs at the same time (for that respective rank). This is an easy fix.
    Let's say TSgt is the first rank that will fall into this new system. Gather all your TSgts into a room and tell them this:
    "Your name is on this form twice, my name is on it once. This form is twice as important to you as it is to me...It is your responsibility to provide well written inputs to support your rating."
    As it stands now, 20 - 50% of bullets are "shared" between multiple RATEEs. This should also be eliminated. Only one NCO "led" an event, hence only one EPR will state that.
    If you're in a production type environment, time for you to start tracking how many X do you accomplish (unless there is a data system already in place that does this).
    TSgt X accomplished 137 actions (job orders, customers, etc.) with a 1% error rate (internal QA review, customer feedback, do over, etc.)
    TSgt J accomplished 47 actions with a 18% error rate (but is on every base committee, etc.)
    Pretty easy to rate these 2 accurately regarding mission accomplishment!

    The problem lies in that the majority of organizations do not have a tracking mechanism in place, nor do they have a measurable standard in place for individual performance.
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

  7. #7
    Member DannyJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief_KO View Post
    Regarding writing all the shop's EPRs at the same time (for that respective rank). This is an easy fix.
    Let's say TSgt is the first rank that will fall into this new system. Gather all your TSgts into a room and tell them this:
    "Your name is on this form twice, my name is on it once. This form is twice as important to you as it is to me...It is your responsibility to provide well written inputs to support your rating."
    As it stands now, 20 - 50% of bullets are "shared" between multiple RATEEs. This should also be eliminated. Only one NCO "led" an event, hence only one EPR will state that.
    If you're in a production type environment, time for you to start tracking how many X do you accomplish (unless there is a data system already in place that does this).
    TSgt X accomplished 137 actions (job orders, customers, etc.) with a 1% error rate (internal QA review, customer feedback, do over, etc.)
    TSgt J accomplished 47 actions with a 18% error rate (but is on every base committee, etc.)
    Pretty easy to rate these 2 accurately regarding mission accomplishment!

    The problem lies in that the majority of organizations do not have a tracking mechanism in place, nor do they have a measurable standard in place for individual performance.
    There's the problem right now. Things will almost immediately revert to how they are now. Jobs like mine are incredibly dependant on others doing their job (outside my realm of control) for me to look as though I'm doing mine...meaning my measureable performance is more subjective. Kinda hard to put numbers to actions, so the leadership will end up going back to "Who was at the bake sales, squadron picnic, booster club president, etc.?" The problem is always going to be performance vs percieved performance, particularly in jobs where metrics are derivative.
    “To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.” - Unknown

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyJ View Post
    There's the problem right now. Things will almost immediately revert to how they are now. Jobs like mine are incredibly dependant on others doing their job (outside my realm of control) for me to look as though I'm doing mine...meaning my measureable performance is more subjective. Kinda hard to put numbers to actions, so the leadership will end up going back to "Who was at the bake sales, squadron picnic, booster club president, etc.?" The problem is always going to be performance vs percieved performance, particularly in jobs where metrics are derivative.
    During feedback sessions, it should be easy to focus specifically on the task at hand.

    In my experience, ambiguous metrics doesn't directly lead to bake sale over emphasis, but to gross exaggeration of the member's contribution when the EPR is written. The bake sale shit comes later, be patient, I'll get to it.

    In intel for example, an airmen might write a few hundred technical reports and be given credit for contributing to the killing xx of the enemy.

    It is a big stretch of the imagination and everyone in the EPR chain knows it, but those bullets go out that way.

    For a Cold War era cop it was even worse, if a patrol was sent to check out a fence alarm because a gust of wind set it off, it would get written up as they repelled the entire Red Army.

    An attempt to make EPR bullets meaningful, resulted in them becoming meaningless.

    Here is where the volunteerism war started.

    The ridiculous duty performance bullets resulted in well meaning supervisors, who wanted their troops to stand out, to start pushing the total person concept, and the bake sale diva was born.

    All behold that fancy strutting peacock, the bake sale diva, who raises funds for garish Hail & Farewell trinkets, and boosts the morale of the squadron with his tantalizing cupcakes.

    Miraculously, this industrious peacock still finds the time to enroll in community college classes, volunteer at animal shelters, and read books to elementary school children. Forget about the fact, they only showed up at the animal shelter or book reading once in the entire year, that shit went in the EPR.

    At some point a SNCO tried to through cold water on this bullshit, but another well meaning SNCO who wanted to protect his troop's dazzling "total person concept" feathers, stepped in and insisted that exact number of hours spent at the animal shelter be documented.

    And that is how the volunteerism arms race started. To end that arms race means plucking all those beautiful tail feathers, and I ask you, who the fuck wants a squadron of peacocks with no tail feathers?
    Last edited by Absinthe Anecdote; 06-09-2014 at 06:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Apparantly, looking at the form and the blocks farthest to the right, you will need to score at least a 101 on your PT test to be rated there.

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    Senior Member CrustySMSgt's Avatar
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    Agree they aren't perfect, but when followed by aligning close outs and routing the feedback with the EPR, it has the opportunity to move us in the right direction. I like adding demographics to the rating blocks (some, most, some, very few); it will now force the discussion as to how someone can be rated in the very few category. Sure, they're all just words and without a concerted effort to get folks to do the right thing, we'll be in the same boat we've always been... so I hope folks use this as the "line in the sand" opportunity and move forward with a new outlook.
    "If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep the streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep the street so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well. "

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