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Thread: Seattle pass $15 minimum wage

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Seattle pass $15 minimum wage

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/02/news...html?hpt=hp_t2

    Thoughts? On one hand, great for those who need it.

    My question is this...If one can make $15 an hour, what's the motivation to not drop out of high school and get a job? Will dropout numbers go up, or will the better (living wage) lifestyle lead to more educated people in the long run?

    Option 1: I hate school, I can make pretty good money working a minimum wage job. Why finish?

    Option 2: I can provide a better life for my children, which means they will have a better opportunity to become educated and do better than I did.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/02/news...html?hpt=hp_t2

    Thoughts? On one hand, great for those who need it.

    My question is this...If one can make $15 an hour, what's the motivation to not drop out of high school and get a job? Will dropout numbers go up, or will the better (living wage) lifestyle lead to more educated people in the long run?

    Option 1: I hate school, I can make pretty good money working a minimum wage job. Why finish?

    Option 2: I can provide a better life for my children, which means they will have a better opportunity to become educated and do better than I did.
    I really can't help but think that the worry about whether or not someone is going to finish high school because of the minimum wage is really a mask for true concerns that might be less than noble.

    Otherwise, I think people need to pay close attention to what's going on in Seattle in the years that follow.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/02/news...html?hpt=hp_t2

    Thoughts? On one hand, great for those who need it.

    My question is this...If one can make $15 an hour, what's the motivation to not drop out of high school and get a job? Will dropout numbers go up, or will the better (living wage) lifestyle lead to more educated people in the long run?

    Option 1: I hate school, I can make pretty good money working a minimum wage job. Why finish?

    Option 2: I can provide a better life for my children, which means they will have a better opportunity to become educated and do better than I did.
    Question: What is so magical about 13 years of school? If a 16 year old kid has learned all the basic skills they need and they have no desire to further their education why shouldn't they go ahead and enter the work force at 16? My senior year of high school I did the work study program where I went to school half of the day and worked at my dad's construction company the other half of the day. The 5 classes I took that year were Bible Study (christian school), Music, American Government, Study Hall, and Physical Education. What was so valuable about that year that I couldn't have just graduated the year before? Literally, the only reason I needed to attend was to meet the credit requirements so I could graduate and move on to college. Wouldn't it be a better use of my time to learn a skill or make some cash by entering the workforce?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I really can't help but think that the worry about whether or not someone is going to finish high school because of the minimum wage is really a mask for true concerns that might be less than noble.

    Otherwise, I think people need to pay close attention to what's going on in Seattle in the years that follow.
    It's absolutely not "less than noble". It's an honest question and that's why I raised both sides of the question...the good and bad.

    It will be a good testing ground, though Seattle already has one of the best economies in the country so it may not translate the same to all cities.

    To add to the high school drop out point, let me put it this way:

    I'm in high school and know already that I don't plan on going to college. With just a high school deploma I know I'm not going to be marketable for anything other than a service type job. What would be the advantage of completing high school when I know I can get a job, make ok money, and get some work experience which may help me get a better job later on?

    To the second point, will the increased wages withing the lower income communities provide more opportunity. Will it improve the schools in those areas, enticing those who may have dropped out to actually stay in and complete school?

    I'm really curious to see the outcome and hope that it's the second option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy View Post
    Question: What is so magical about 13 years of school? If a 16 year old kid has learned all the basic skills they need and they have no desire to further their education why shouldn't they go ahead and enter the work force at 16? My senior year of high school I did the work study program where I went to school half of the day and worked at my dad's construction company the other half of the day. The 5 classes I took that year were Bible Study (christian school), Music, American Government, Study Hall, and Physical Education. What was so valuable about that year that I couldn't have just graduated the year before? Literally, the only reason I needed to attend was to meet the credit requirements so I could graduate and move on to college. Wouldn't it be a better use of my time to learn a skill or make some cash by entering the workforce?
    Very possible. England has this option. The last 2 years is pretty much optional. Though the point is more about how the wages will affect things rather than whether 13 years of school is beneficial. That's probably another entire thread.

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    Companies will figure out how to make up for the increased personnel costs. Options include reduced hours, reduced labor or higher prices. If I was a small business owner, then I would spend the 7 year transition period looking for ways to relocate outside of city limits. Add in the health care mandate, and I would also limit my business growth to stay under the employee # threshold for having to provide healthcare.

    Aren't progressive policies wonderful for America?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Very possible. England has this option. The last 2 years is pretty much optional. Though the point is more about how the wages will affect things rather than whether 13 years of school is beneficial. That's probably another entire thread.
    I had a friend in high school who landed a job as a busboy at Olive Garden right out of high school. The waiters and waitresses at Olive Garden make pretty good money and they all tip the bussers. His parents became concerned that he wouldn't be interested in going to college because he was already making close to $20 an hour just working at Olive Garden. The same thing could happen with $15 minimum wage. My biggest concern is what he $15 minimum wage would do the the prices of goods not how it effects the worker. Higher minumum wage hurts people who are not working or those living on a fixed income such as social security. If McDonalds pays everyone $15 per hour they sure as heck won't be selling cheeseburgers for a $1 anymore.

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    Senior Member WILDJOKER5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    I really can't help but think that the worry about whether or not someone is going to finish high school because of the minimum wage is really a mask for true concerns that might be less than noble.

    Otherwise, I think people need to pay close attention to what's going on in Seattle in the years that follow.
    I fully agree. Like how we have paid attention to Detroit and Chicago and New Orleans, and Atlanta, and...well, just name a democrat city not taxed out their minds. I guess Seattle is trying to attract all the low skilled, under educated people they can get to work these lowest of the totem poll jobs they can get. Honestly, if I had my choice between Seattle or North Dakota, I think I am going to ND to help out with the oil instead of Seattle to flip burgers.
    Progressivism; such great ideas, they need to force you to follow them.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    It's absolutely not "less than noble". It's an honest question and that's why I raised both sides of the question...the good and bad.

    It will be a good testing ground, though Seattle already has one of the best economies in the country so it may not translate the same to all cities.

    To add to the high school drop out point, let me put it this way:

    I'm in high school and know already that I don't plan on going to college. With just a high school deploma I know I'm not going to be marketable for anything other than a service type job. What would be the advantage of completing high school when I know I can get a job, make ok money, and get some work experience which may help me get a better job later on?

    To the second point, will the increased wages withing the lower income communities provide more opportunity. Will it improve the schools in those areas, enticing those who may have dropped out to actually stay in and complete school?

    I'm really curious to see the outcome and hope that it's the second option.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    It's absolutely not "less than noble". It's an honest question and that's why I raised both sides of the question...the good and bad.

    It will be a good testing ground, though Seattle already has one of the best economies in the country so it may not translate the same to all cities.

    To add to the high school drop out point, let me put it this way:

    I'm in high school and know already that I don't plan on going to college. With just a high school deploma I know I'm not going to be marketable for anything other than a service type job. What would be the advantage of completing high school when I know I can get a job, make ok money, and get some work experience which may help me get a better job later on?

    To the second point, will the increased wages withing the lower income communities provide more opportunity. Will it improve the schools in those areas, enticing those who may have dropped out to actually stay in and complete school?

    I'm really curious to see the outcome and hope that it's the second option.
    Or maybe... just maybe... employers can exercise their option to pay high school graduates more than $15/hr.

    In truth, things are no different than now. One can still drop out of high school outside of Seattle and make whatever the minimum wage is there.

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    Companies will figure out how to make up for the increased personnel costs. Options include reduced hours, reduced labor or higher prices. If I was a small business owner, then I would spend the 7 year transition period looking for ways to relocate outside of city limits. Add in the health care mandate, and I would also limit my business growth to stay under the employee # threshold for having to provide healthcare.

    Aren't progressive policies wonderful for America?
    In order to make up for increased pay at McDonald's, the average price per meal would only go up by around fifteen cents.

    The one thing they don't tell you about these low wages and why places like McDonald's pay them - despite the numerous tax incentives that came out for paying higher wages (ones that even outweight the rise in personnel costs, assuming that prices aren't raised) is because of how it makes the financial statements look. Return on equity (ROE) is one of the most important things that investers look at, and higher wages lower the ROE. Taxes do not affect the ROE. Higher ROE looks good on paper to investors, which is why wages are kept low.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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    Senior Member WILDJOKER5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    Companies will figure out how to make up for the increased personnel costs. Options include reduced hours, reduced labor or higher prices. If I was a small business owner, then I would spend the 7 year transition period looking for ways to relocate outside of city limits. Add in the health care mandate, and I would also limit my business growth to stay under the employee # threshold for having to provide healthcare.

    Aren't progressive policies wonderful for America?
    Dont forget about lowering quality. Adding in more "meat substitute" to spread the "real" meat out longer. Or washing the laundry less times a week in hotels.
    Progressivism; such great ideas, they need to force you to follow them.

    Socialism is for the people, not the socialist.

    Economic Left/Right: 7.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.08
    politicalcompass.org

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