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Thread: Change of heart

  1. #11
    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    You can feel free to toy with me. I don't mind. I haven't changed my perspective on how society is or how others should deal with their lifestyles. I still know that there are several people taking advantage of the system. I still feel that people shouldn't be expected to pay out a higher percentage of their wages if they make more.

    I'm just saying that, for me, I'm not concerned with whether my tax dollars are being wasted because if even a little of it is going to help only 1 person who is really in need then I am happy with that. I'm not calling for a societal change or a change of principals from anyone else other than myself.
    So, basically, you're lukewarm. Okay...
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

  2. #12
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    So, basically, you're lukewarm. Okay...
    Luke warm to what?

    My feelings are based off of my religious beliefs. If I'm basing my thoughts off of the belief that Jesus helped the poor then I must also base my thoughts off the belief that Jesus never forced anyone to follow his ideas, give money, or help anyone That's what made him such a great leader (cross-thread reference). To expand on that, the statement about "giving unto Caesar" has nothing to do with paying taxes. It's saying (paraphrase) "who cares how much money they want from you, the money isn't important because being rich isn't what is going to get you into heaven." It's not saying anything close to "taxes are a requirement, we should just accept it".

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I am a little puzzled by the gloating over SJ's change of heart. I for one don't remember him ever saying that entitlement programs should not be in existence. His only change in stance now seems to be forgiving of those low life's who cheat the system (I am still of a stone heart in that regard).

    I do remember however many times when people who have cited wastes and abuses in these programs were labeled as wanting to get rid of them thus putting words into their mouths. Seems that hasn't changed.
    There is always reason to gloat; you'd be pleased to know, that self-righteousness is dripping like honey from my tongue onto my keyboard as I type this.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to typing my essay on how Toby Keith is a negative influence on white moral values.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJMAC77SP View Post
    I am a little puzzled by the gloating over SJ's change of heart. I for one don't remember him ever saying that entitlement programs should not be in existence. His only change in stance now seems to be forgiving of those low life's who cheat the system (I am still of a stone heart in that regard).

    I do remember however many times when people who have cited wastes and abuses in these programs were labeled as wanting to get rid of them thus putting words into their mouths. Seems that hasn't changed.
    Great point TJ. Thanks for clarifying for me. You said it better than I did, I suppose. I've always stated we needed the systems but that they could be improved. But, as you say, I was very derogatory towards those who misused it. I'm past that now.

    I also agree with your second point. Wanting fixes doesn't mean one wants to abolish the systems.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    There is always reason to gloat; you'd be pleased to know, that self-righteousness is dripping like honey from my tongue onto my keyboard as I type this.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to typing my essay on how Toby Keith is a negative influence on white moral values.
    You'll never convince me of that. The catholics make the cross symbol when they pray. There are 4 points on the cross. The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Toby Keith. There is no denying that.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    I was actually hoping this thread wouldn't turn political, but I guess it's unavoidable.

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Luke warm to what?

    My feelings are based off of my religious beliefs. If I'm basing my thoughts off of the belief that Jesus helped the poor then I must also base my thoughts off the belief that Jesus never forced anyone to follow his ideas, give money, or help anyone That's what made him such a great leader (cross-thread reference). To expand on that, the statement about "giving unto Caesar" has nothing to do with paying taxes. It's saying (paraphrase) "who cares how much money they want from you, the money isn't important because being rich isn't what is going to get you into heaven." It's not saying anything close to "taxes are a requirement, we should just accept it".
    You really need to read Matthew 22:15-21 again, it is a direct response from Jesus to a disciples question about paying taxes.

    Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar

    Matthew 22
    New International Version (NIV)

    15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?

    18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

    21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

    Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

    22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...22&version=NIV

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    Senior Member LogDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    In the past I've made it very clear how I have felt about social programs, etc.

    I'd just like to say that over the past few months I've been doing quite a bit of "soul searching" and have come to the conclusion that I believe I've been completely wrong.

    Are there people out there taking advantage of the system? Of course. But it doesn't matter. As a Christian, it's up to me to do what I can to help those who have very little/nothing. If that means that I have to vote for someone who wants to raise taxes to spend more on social programs then so be it.

    I still believe there are better ways to do it then raising taxes for the rich (I feel that a flat tax for middle class and up would be the best way to go) but as far as the healthcare/welfare/etc go, I'm fully behind it. If that means I have less...I'm fine with that.

    If the programs ended up helping only one "deserving" person while allowing thousands to take advantage of the system, I'm good with that.

    "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, give unto God that which is God's".

    Just let me add that this change of heart does not come from any personal/family related incident. This is strictly a religious "slap in the face" I've recently had. It's a shame that it took me so long, but all that matters is that I got there before it was too late.

    I'd also like to add that I'm not condemning those of you who feel the way I used to. I see your point, I understand your arguments, because they were mine for a long time.
    I don't care for people who abuse programs to help others who actually need help. The social programs are the safety nets society constructed to keep people from endless poverty or suffering. The analogy I use is that of a trapeze artist in a circus. If he looses his grip and falls, the (safety) net is there to catch him and help lift him back up so he can climb the ladder and resume his position in society (circus).

    I alone cannot help everyone but collectively as a society we can. I don't mind paying more in taxes if that will help those less fortunate than myself because that's part of the contract individuals have with society. In my small city, we have a bond measure on the ballot to raise $29 million by issuing five-year bonds. The yearly tax increase on me would be about $450 a year to pay off the bond but that's something I'm, a person without any children, am willing to do because it benefits the children and also society as a whole by educating those who will be the doctors, lawyers, nurses, auto mechanics, soldiers/sailors/airmen, etc. of the future.

    I hope as time goes forward you'll increase your awareness and support of those truly in need.

  9. #19
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    You really need to read Matthew 22:15-21 again, it is a direct response from Jesus to a disciples question about paying taxes.

    Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar

    Matthew 22
    New International Version (NIV)

    15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?

    18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

    21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

    Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

    22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...22&version=NIV
    That is absolutely what he says. The way I take it is that he's saying "The money isn't important. It's not of God. It is of Caesar. Let him have it. You don't need it to enter into heaven".

    It's not about paying taxes. It's about putting Godly things ahead of Earthly things. It could have been anything. It just so happened that the example given takes place in the temple with money changing hands.

    If it was a home, and the Roman's came to take the home away, the same statement would have been made. It's not that one shouldn't have a home, it's that they shouldn't value it more than they value God. It shouldn't define them.

  10. #20
    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogDog View Post
    I don't care for people who abuse programs to help others who actually need help. The social programs are the safety nets society constructed to keep people from endless poverty or suffering. The analogy I use is that of a trapeze artist in a circus. If he looses his grip and falls, the (safety) net is there to catch him and help lift him back up so he can climb the ladder and resume his position in society (circus).

    I alone cannot help everyone but collectively as a society we can. I don't mind paying more in taxes if that will help those less fortunate than myself because that's part of the contract individuals have with society. In my small city, we have a bond measure on the ballot to raise $29 million by issuing five-year bonds. The yearly tax increase on me would be about $450 a year to pay off the bond but that's something I'm, a person without any children, am willing to do because it benefits the children and also society as a whole by educating those who will be the doctors, lawyers, nurses, auto mechanics, soldiers/sailors/airmen, etc. of the future.

    I hope as time goes forward you'll increase your awareness and support of those truly in need.
    I too would support that bond. In the recent past I probably wouldn't have but the example you've stated is exactly the point I was trying to make about the "change of heart" I've had.

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