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Thread: Korean bar managers say troops turned down offers for help before soldier died

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    Korean bar managers say troops turned down offers for help before soldier died

    SEOUL — The men tending to a U.S. soldier after he was knocked out in an early-morning street brawl turned down multiple offers to call an ambulance, according to two managers at a hip hop club that he was thrown out of after getting into an argument with other troops.

    Spc. Carl A. Lissone died about 10 hours later from a brain hemorrhage, following a train ride to a city some 40 miles away and a short stay in a hotel just outside the Army base where he was stationed.

    Whether the beating alone killed Lissone, or whether immediate medical care may have saved his life could determine if any charges are filed.

    South Korean police say all those involved — in the fight and Lissone’s trip to Pyeongtaek — were U.S. troops, including his alleged attacker, identified by a Pyeongtaek police official as a roughly 20-year-old U.S. servicemember stationed at Osan Air Base.

    Few details have been released about the May 4 incident.

    The U.S. military has taken the lead in the investigation with assistance from South Korean police, who interviewed Lissone’s suspected attacker as well as the soldiers who were with him. The National Forensic Service conducted an autopsy on Lissone; only the cause of death has been released so far.

    Police said at least four U.S. servicemembers were involved in the fight that occurred well after the 1 a.m. curfew for troops here. It is unclear how many people tried to assist Lissone.

    A Pyeongtaek police official on Wednesday could not confirm accounts by the managers of Club Naked in Hongdae, a popular entertainment district, that employees offered to call an ambulance for Lissone after the 3:45 a.m. altercation.

    One of the managers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a bouncer kicked out a group of men who were arguing. He did not know how many were involved or what started the dispute.

    When the manager went outside to smoke, he saw Lissone unconscious and leaning against the wall of a nearby store. He told his employees to bring water and paper towels to help clean him up but said it seemed “unthinkable” that the soldier might die.

    South Korean police say that even though Lissone was bleeding from the nose and ears, the group took a train from Seoul to Pyeongtaek, home to U.S. Army Garrison Humphreys, where Lissone, an information technology specialist, was stationed with the 304th Expeditionary Signal Battalion, 1st Signal Brigade.

    The group arrived around 7:30 a.m. at the Royal Hotel, about a five-minute walk from Humphreys in a run-down neighborhood of bars, restaurants, hotels and knockoff clothing stores geared toward the local military community. A hotel employee said two men were holding up Lissone and put him in a chair. As they checked into a room, the men told the desk clerk that Lissone was drunk and that they planned to stay for only a short rest.

    Police said video footage recorded by a street camera showed a foreigner administering CPR to Lissone outside the hotel around 1 p.m. He was taken to a Pyeongtaek hospital at 1:16 p.m. and pronounced dead a short time later.

    The Club Naked manager said that while U.S. troops usually don’t cause trouble at the club, the business decided after the incident to ban all servicemembers under 21 — a move that would reinforce the U.S. Forces Korea policy that bans drinking by troops under 21. The legal drinking age in South Korea is 19.

    Read more: http://www.stripes.com/news/korean-b...-died-1.282973
    Tragic all around...soldier dead, airman likely facing life-altering charges...hard to say what was going through everyone's minds for sure, but I suspect the fact that they would all get busted for being out past curfew played a role in their decisions.

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    I guess I have never understood the hostility between the 4 services. Everytime I've been TDY to any location, we always get a local area brief and one of those is "don't go to this bar or club because of X service lives there and if you look at them wrong there will be a fight". Even when I was in Korea, there was always fights breaking out between the AF and the Army for no other reason than that. We still had fights between ourselves, but normally that was something that bred from the workplace.

    I'm wondering, do other services give the same briefs when they come TDY to AF bases and the surrounding areas?

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    Senior Member efmbman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Voice View Post
    I guess I have never understood the hostility between the 4 services. Everytime I've been TDY to any location, we always get a local area brief and one of those is "don't go to this bar or club because of X service lives there and if you look at them wrong there will be a fight". Even when I was in Korea, there was always fights breaking out between the AF and the Army for no other reason than that. We still had fights between ourselves, but normally that was something that bred from the workplace.

    I'm wondering, do other services give the same briefs when they come TDY to AF bases and the surrounding areas?
    I've never received that briefing. The attitude from my leaders was always the same: we all work for the same guy. Look out for each other regardless of the uniform.

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    Well, maybe not everytime I've been TDY, but enough for it to stick in my memory.

    Our bosses always said the same thing about one team, one fight, but thats not always the case.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Voice View Post
    I'm wondering, do other services give the same briefs when they come TDY to AF bases and the surrounding areas?
    I have seen some good inter-service rivalry but nothing to the point of physically fighting someone with the impetus of the fight being that rivalry. There are stereotypes for every branch, and there are generalities I would associate to every branch too ... and there are exceptions to every one of those.

    As far as getting briefs when deployed etc. of "Don't go here because that is a [fill in the blank service] hangout" ... no, I have never seen that.

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    For my career, most of those {Dont go to this place} type briefings were cause of the criminality of the place, whether due to the sex trade, drugs or something else. Rarely did we get told {dont go here, cause the AF or Marines occupy it and will beat your a((}

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    Senior Member Absinthe Anecdote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Voice View Post
    Well, maybe not everytime I've been TDY, but enough for it to stick in my memory.
    Okinawa during the late 1990's was the only place that I ever got a briefing like that.

    There were certain Marine bars in Naha that it wasn't advisable for an airmen to go to.

    There was a weird crips & bloods type rivalry going on in Okinawa at the time between different Marine infantry units. If I remember correctly, a bunch of street gang members joined the Marines back then, and that type of behavior got out of hand for a while.

    Most of the units I served in where joint service and fights were rare.

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absinthe Anecdote View Post
    Okinawa during the late 1990's was the only place that I ever got a briefing like that.

    There were certain Marine bars in Naha that it wasn't advisable for an airmen to go to.

    There was a weird crips & bloods type rivalry going on in Okinawa at the time between different Marine infantry units. If I remember correctly, a bunch of street gang members joined the Marines back then, and that type of behavior got out of hand for a while.

    Most of the units I served in where joint service and fights were rare.
    In Guam, when the Marines would come in to the Navy base for the weekend/week, the Air Force base was pretty much locked down. All clubs on the island were off-limits until the boat departed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    For my career, most of those {Dont go to this place} type briefings were cause of the criminality of the place, whether due to the sex trade, drugs or something else. Rarely did we get told {dont go here, cause the AF or Marines occupy it and will beat your a((}
    Me too.

    Never heard of being briefed that a bar was for other services. Maybe some informal word-of-mouth stuff from other bar-hoppers.

    I have seen bars placed off-limits for criminal activity though...and at Osan in the wake of 9/11 some were placed off-limits for not implemented security measures insisted on by the base. In the old days, bars were placed off-limits for "homosexual activity" too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    In Guam, when the Marines would come in to the Navy base for the weekend/week, the Air Force base was pretty much locked down. All clubs on the island were off-limits until the boat departed.
    When was that? I was stationed there from 05-07 and never saw anything of that nature.

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