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Thread: Vets die, waiting for treatment. Yet another failure at a VA hospice

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    Vets die, waiting for treatment. Yet another failure at a VA hospice

    I wonder if cause of the Feres doctrine, these docs and the others at the VA will be held accountable/get sued..

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health...ays/index.html

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Re: Vets die, waiting for treatment. Yet another failure at a VA hospice

    Feres states: "... the United States is not liable under the Federal Tort Claims Act for injuries to members of the armed forces sustained while on active duty and not on furlough and resulting from the negligence of others in the armed forces."

    The Department of Veterans Affairs is not part of the DoD / Armed Forces ... I am not a lawyer, but my guess would be be that the survivors may have grounds to sue.

    EDIT: A quick Google seach shows many instances where people have successfully sued the VA.

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    Re: Vets die, waiting for treatment. Yet another failure at a VA hospice

    AH. I was thinking that Feres would protect these putzes like it does AD doctors.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Va Secretary Shinseki testified before the Senate Veteran's Affairs Committee today, I watched part of it and it did seem that both Republicans and Democrats were very critical of the VA.

    What is troubling me about the further developments in this case, is that the "secret waiting list" seems to have been used (in a very similar format & fashion) at more than one VA medical center; this makes me think that either more that one person in the system has a good idea on how to do a bad thing, or there was some sort of collusion about how to hide the fact that patients were not being served appropriately and within the standing policies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    I watched part of it and it did seem that both Republicans and Democrats were very critical of the VA.
    Another fine example of the bold leadership displayed by men of great character :jaded:

    What is troubling me about the further developments in this case, is that the "secret waiting list" seems to have been used (in a very similar format & fashion) at more than one VA medical center; this makes me think that either more that one person in the system has a good idea on how to do a bad thing, or there was some sort of collusion about how to hide the fact that patients were not being served appropriately and within the standing policies.
    Manipulate the stats to make the numbers look better so everyone gets their bonus.

    That's what this was all about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Measure Man View Post
    Manipulate the stats to make the numbers look better so everyone gets their bonus.

    That's what this was all about.
    That does look like what it was. Govt bigwigs put 'goals' on them, so they cook the books rather than bust their butts to hit those goals.

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    Senior Member Stalwart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    That does look like what it was. Govt bigwigs put 'goals' on them, so they cook the books rather than bust their butts to hit those goals.
    +1

    It makes me think of two scenarios:

    1. Policies (goals) were set that required the staffs to work harder, overtime, or hiring additional personnel than they had in the past; however, the status quo level of effort or manning was maintained and a way to game the system was developed.

    2. Policies (goals) were set that were not realistic and the management was unwilling to report that fact to the Department and a way to game the system was developed to avoid confrontation with their bosses.

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    Go for simple and incompetent over compicated and/or malicious when looking for likely explanations.

    The reported waiting times at various centers were outrageuous, so beauracrats higher in the food chain directed improving the reported times. Some lower-level beauracrat figured out how to maipulate the data (instituting a "ghost" waiting list) to improve the reported times without actually having to change anythign about hwo service was provided. Other locations got flack abotu not improving their numbers, checked with the team who first cooked the books and copied the procedure in order to quiet complaints from above.

    Typical bad human behavior that implements this bad policy (and propogates it through the VA), and it doesn't require any true maliciousness beyond simple laziness.
    Back from the bit bucket. Somebody flushed the buffers on me, though . . ..

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    Senior Member Chief_KO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalwart View Post
    +1

    It makes me think of two scenarios:

    1. Policies (goals) were set that required the staffs to work harder, overtime, or hiring additional personnel than they had in the past; however, the status quo level of effort or manning was maintained and a way to game the system was developed.

    2. Policies (goals) were set that were not realistic and the management was unwilling to report that fact to the Department and a way to game the system was developed to avoid confrontation with their bosses.
    I'd say 65% for #2 and 35% for #1 (with a 3% margin for error).
    "Never force a fart in Djibouti"..."Always marry your second wife first"..."If anyone says that you're not a team player, maybe they're on the wrong team"..."You can gold plate a turd and it's still a turd"

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    This reminds me of the USAF Nuclear cheating scandal but somewhat modified. Policies/goals set to high by management and those impacted by these, impossible to reach expectations, found a work around.

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