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Thread: The Ukraine situation

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Regardless, throughout the history of the US, we average a major war every 20 years anyway. The longest period of time was War of 1812 to the Civil War, which were 40 years apart... but we've got enough wars that were ten years apart to bring the average to 20. Seeing as how the Cold War accounts for less than a fifth the the US's existence, I think that one can safely say that a new Cold War won't change a thing.

    Edit: War of 1812 and Civil War were 50 years apart, but I forgot the Mexican American War which happened in the 1840's.
    The best move is to just mind our own fucking business as it's been proven time and time again that when we get involved to fix something, then leave, it is probably going to revert back to how it was (or worse) than when we got there.

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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Regardless, throughout the history of the US, we average a major war every 20 years anyway. The longest period of time was War of 1812 to the Civil War, which were 40 years apart... but we've got enough wars that were ten years apart to bring the average to 20. Seeing as how the Cold War accounts for less than a fifth the the US's existence, I think that one can safely say that a new Cold War won't change a thing.

    Edit: War of 1812 and Civil War were 50 years apart, but I forgot the Mexican American War which happened in the 1840's.
    I'll trust you're right about all that, but those are only America's wars. Do you have any data regarding the number of conflicts worldwide before, during and after the Cold War?
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Everyone needs to relax, the Ukraine has a conscript military and they know how to take care of business. Here is how the transfer of power process normally starts in this particular region.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7QkJjWIHFSA

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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Aside from the side discussions, I hope we stay well and clear from this quagmire in waiting. It'd be better for their sakes and ours to not get involved in the long run.

    As for Cold War Reagan foreign policy, a lot of the violence we see today is blowback from precisely that. Neither he nor Clinton are exactly "saints" simply because the actual American troop footprints were limited, there's a whole lot of moving parts involved that were not front page headlines but where the CIA interference has created a whole slew of "hating us for our freedoms".
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    I'll trust you're right about all that, but those are only America's wars. Do you have any data regarding the number of conflicts worldwide before, during and after the Cold War?
    The US's wars were the only ones I was talking about, as they are the only ones relevant to SJ's suggestions. But it's still about the same. Spanish War to WWI, and WWI to WWII were each 20 years apart. WWII to Korea was little more than ten; Korea to Vietnam was about ten, and Vietnam to Desert Storm was 20. Desert Storm to Afghanistan (and Iraq), ten years.

    Do YOU believe that another Cold War will change this trend?
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    The US's wars were the only ones I was talking about, as they are the only ones relevant to SJ's suggestions. But it's still about the same. Spanish War to WWI, and WWI to WWII were each 20 years apart. WWII to Korea was little more than ten; Korea to Vietnam was about ten, and Vietnam to Desert Storm was 20. Desert Storm to Afghanistan (and Iraq), ten years.

    Do YOU believe that another Cold War will change this trend?
    The trend won't change, but the 10-20 year break would be nice.

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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    Okay. It's a riot. But it still could seem justified from the point of view of the protestors.
    Look, if in the future some US president concocts some secret deal to allow China to take over the US in return for his own personal gain, do you think the 'Murcan people will stand for that? You don't think, if it comes down to it, we won't riot and/or engage in outright civil warfare to take back our country? Would you say it's wrong to do that and we should simply welcome our new Chinese overlords?
    Well, that's pretty much what's happening in Ukraine. One man's lawless riot is another man's just cause.
    Honestly, I do believe that a large minority will be happy that China took over America and made it a "Socialist Utopia" and ended the "income inequality". The reason I say this is because almost everywhere you turn now there is a story about how bad the USA is because of income inequality. But that is my take on it.

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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Do YOU believe that another Cold War will change this trend?
    What I believe, devoutly, is that nobody is capable of predicting anything that will happen in the future.

    But it did seem to me that their were fewer regional conflicts in the world during the previous Cold War. I haven't done any research to back that up. That's why I asked you -- hoping you'd do the legwork for me.
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    Senior Member AJBIGJ's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    What I believe, devoutly, is that nobody is capable of predicting anything that will happen in the future.

    But it did seem to me that their were fewer regional conflicts in the world during the previous Cold War. I haven't done any research to back that up. That's why I asked you -- hoping you'd do the legwork for me.
    Nothing as long-lasting happened back then. Afghanistan and Iraq were ridiculously prolonged for the "nation building" efforts. They were usually more limited in scope and heavily invested in non-troops assets. What has happened since the Cold War is our seeing ourselves as the "World Police" has been essentially uncontested and we have felt bold enough to drop entire coalitions on those who, well basically we felt like attacking. What is different now than say prior to WWII is we've been consistently the aggressor, it's never retaliation (for those who spout 9/11 or USS Cole those were not nation-sponsored attacks). During the Cold War almost everything was done behind closed doors with Intelligence Agencies and secretive transitions of government assets, a lot of this was from the quasi-rational fear that open conflict would eventually devolve into ICBMs on major population centers. Notice the trend here, we are more than happy to invest our assets into countries that "misbehave" and simultaneously lack that particular capability, whereas we tiptoe a bit more carefully around those that do.
    "The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." ~ Thomas Jefferson

    It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by CYBERFX1024 View Post
    Honestly, I do believe that a large minority will be happy that China took over America and made it a "Socialist Utopia" and ended the "income inequality". The reason I say this is because almost everywhere you turn now there is a story about how bad the USA is because of income inequality. But that is my take on it.
    I'd doubt they would like it as much if china also implemented all their other policies (such as one child only) as well.

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