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Thread: The Ukraine situation

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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    Well, you might want to retract that request for another Cold War because it was more "peaceful."
    Reagan Era Cold War...Jesus Christ I'm getting a headache.

    From 1980-1991 there were 360 combat related deaths, with 279 of those happening in Beirut and Panama. Compare those numbers to the past 10 years and tell me which one is better?

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Reagan Era Cold War...Jesus Christ I'm getting a headache.
    You do realize that the reason for the Reagan Era Cold War was not on our end, right? After Vietnam, Leonids Brezhnev's economic policies forced the Soviet Union into a stagflation... and they couldn't afford another war or proxy war. So many internal issues were caused by Brezhnev, that a big mess was left for Andropov, Chernenko, and Gorbechev to clean up... and they had no choice but to ease up off of the other Warsaw Pact countries. This, of course led to the fall of the Warsaw Pact and ultimately the Soviet Union itself. The US didn't lift a finger the whole time... but was, indeed, ready to go to war throughout the whole ordeal.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Banned sandsjames's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    You do realize that the reason for the Reagan Era Cold War was not on our end, right? After Vietnam, Leonids Brezhnev's economic policies forced the Soviet Union into a stagflation... and they couldn't afford another war or proxy war. So many internal issues were caused by Brezhnev, that a big mess was left for Andropov, Chernenko, and Gorbechev to clean up... and they had no choice but to ease up off of the other Warsaw Pact countries. This, of course led to the fall of the Warsaw Pact and ultimately the Soviet Union itself. The US didn't lift a finger the whole time... but was, indeed, ready to go to war throughout the whole ordeal.

    Yes, but deaths were way down, people were home with their families, etc. I'd take that any day over having people roaming around Afghanistan.

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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    Yes, but deaths were way down, people were home with their families, etc. I'd take that any day over having people roaming around Afghanistan.
    The point is, the US was ready and willing to have another Vietnam or Korea during the Reagan Administration if one could be justified.

    There's a reason why Gorbechev got the Nobel Peace Prize, and Reagan didn't.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Jones View Post
    The point is, the US was ready and willing to have another Vietnam or Korea during the Reagan Administration if one could be justified.

    There's a reason why Gorbechev got the Nobel Peace Prize, and Reagan didn't.
    But we didn't. I don't care which side is responsible for the button not being pushed. The fact is that it wasn't, and I'll take the threat of war, with no action, over what we're going through right now any day of the week.

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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    While it may seem hypocritical, what gets me is how most all the news channels seem to only go on about the depredations of the govt forces/police, in how many 'protestors' get hurt/killed, but not so much on the rioters and how many police/troops are injured/killed in their molotov cocktail burning..
    I also can't understand how they can STILL call it a protest. Call it what it is, a RIOT.
    Okay. It's a riot. But it still could seem justified from the point of view of the protestors.

    Look, if in the future some US president concocts some secret deal to allow China to take over the US in return for his own personal gain, do you think the 'Murcan people will stand for that? You don't think, if it comes down to it, we won't riot and/or engage in outright civil warfare to take back our country? Would you say it's wrong to do that and we should simply welcome our new Chinese overlords?

    Well, that's pretty much what's happening in Ukraine. One man's lawless riot is another man's just cause.
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by sandsjames View Post
    We could really use another Cold War. It was definitely the most peaceful time of my existence.
    I know, right? As soon as the Cold War ended, all the long-simmering feuds in the world suddenly erupted. Without the "stability" of the overarching influence of either the US or the USSR it became a free-for-all.
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    I think that our anti-war Pres Obama should address the nation with another 'convincing' argument for why we need to launch 'limited' air strikes in support of the opposition.

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    Senior Member BENDER56's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by FLAPS, USAF (ret) View Post
    I think that our anti-war Pres Obama should address the nation with another 'convincing' argument for why we need to launch 'limited' air strikes in support of the opposition.
    Part of me thinks the people in sovereign nations need to be left alone to fight their own battles and we have no business intervening.

    The other part of me realizes the world is nothing more than a big Monopoly™ board with only a few countries rolling the dice. As soon as we disengage, the other players move in and they almost always don't have the US's interests in mind.
    "Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
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    Senior Member Rusty Jones's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukrane situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDER56 View Post
    I know, right? As soon as the Cold War ended, all the long-simmering feuds in the world suddenly erupted. Without the "stability" of the overarching influence of either the US or the USSR it became a free-for-all.
    Regardless, throughout the history of the US, we average a major war every 20 years anyway. The longest period of time was War of 1812 to the Civil War, which were 40 years apart... but we've got enough wars that were ten years apart to bring the average to 20. Seeing as how the Cold War accounts for less than a fifth the the US's existence, I think that one can safely say that a new Cold War won't change a thing.

    Edit: War of 1812 and Civil War were 50 years apart, but I forgot the Mexican American War which happened in the 1840's.
    "Well... Uber's going to "driverless" cars soon, and their research probably shows that they're a natural fit (when it comes to getting paid for doing nothing)."
    -Rainmaker, referencing black males

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